Baiting vs non-baiting; deer hunting is much more than that

[Bucksnbows]

At the risk of starting one of those threads where the pro-baiters and the non-baiters jump all over each other, my goal is a bit different.  We've all seen this argument about whether or not to bait here and elsewhere.  That is not what this is about.  Instead, baiting is simply one of many methods that is used to harvest whitetails.  But so are drive hunting, spot and stalk and its kissing cousin tracking a deer in the snow, hunting over travel corridors between food and bedding locations, setting up over a highly used food source like agricultural crops or acorn flats, etc.  The idea that baiting is somehow easy and that hunters that do it "don't learn how to hunt" is nonsense.  It is just one of many methods that has its place in successful deer hunting.

 

If you walk into a mature forest like we have in north Jersey and dump a bag of corn and then set up over it, you have no more guarantee of killing deer than any other methods.  All hunting methods require a knowledge of deer habits and habitat to be highly successful. I think we as deer hunters owe it to ourselves to try different methods and to spend as much time in the woods year round as possible.  I realize that time might be very limited for many given our busy lives.  I myself have tried all of the above and with varying results depending on a large variety of factors.  In states like PA where I hunt, baiting is not allowed.  So we hunt along corn fields or clover fields in fall during the pre-rut, drive after noon on opening day during rifle season, or just sit quietly in a stand overlooking good travel corridors.  The bottom line is, many methods work and work well depending on laws and time of year.  

 

Of the two methods mentioned, it seems that baiting and driving are the two most contentious among deer hunters.  But both have their day in the woods along with the others.

 

Thoughts?     

[Rusty]

I agree. 

 

Baiting and driving probably get the most complaints because they have the biggest impact on other hunters. 

[BowhunterNJ]

I think the one thing that is common in hunting, since millenniums ago, is the level of competition for hunting areas and the respective animal(s) targeted.

Hunters are very territorial, and when they feel someone or something compromises their potential for success, they react negatively.

I think that's where the two most contentious methods come into play because they usually have the biggest impact, whether actual or perceived, on other hunters (as Rusty mentioned).

 

I do agree they are all methods, and they have their place and time to be utilized. But they do overlap in terms of their effect on other hunters, and sometimes that effect is a negative one.

[Bucksnbows]

Fishing and its many variations also sees these same conflicts at times.  Respect for fellow sportsmen has to come into play for us all.  That means not setting up on top of other hunters regardless of methodology.  Drives for me are the harder to deal with.  A neighboring camp in PA drives the woods midmorning after they sit in various locations for first light and often to our benefit as they stay off our property and we sit in tree stands and shoot the bucks they drive our way.  We drive those properties the next day as the locals go back to work (and hunt Saturday or other days they can get off while we're only there for Monday and Tuesday).  Up there, it all works out and everyone wins.

 

But here in NJ, I hunt a stand during 6 Day near our line with state WMA land, and that land is driven hard and poorly beginning opening morning.  Instead of this group getting posters in the woods in the dark and then driving to their posted hunters, they walk in en mass along my line and fan out in the forest and push everything from the top of the mountain down into a swamp and beyond as they walk down.  I hardly ever hear a single shot as all they do is push the deer and bear out in front of them and onto lands that can't be hunted.  They do this at least 4 or 5 times during 6 Day, but they never seem to learn.  Sometimes our guys are the beneficiaries as some critters like to sneak back up the other side on our property.  But they should be posting hunters up high and driving the swamp up and not down.  In that case, it's just a poor job by some local slob hunters who have quite the reputation up at Sparta Mountain WMA.  It's legal, but their methods don't work well for them and they screw up hunting for many others, myself included.     

[BowhunterNJ]

Yes that's very true...everything in life works out better when people do what's best for them AND the other person involved in a situation

Unfortunately, that is more of the exception than the rule.

[Matty]

I agree and disagree.

 

Baiting has it's time and place. I agree.

 

However, I disagree that it's not "easier". That's why it has it's time and place. That's also why I trip over bait piles every time I stroll through public lands.

 

There's no doubt baiting has it's own unique set of challenges, such as usually having to draw a bow in the presence of multiple animals, animals that are typically more on edge, the work involved in carrying in bait, and that's about all I can think of. lol However, it allows a hunter to completely manipulate the animal into a position that is beneficial to the hunter. Not only the location in the woods, but body positioning of the animal for a better shot, blocked eyes for the draw, etc. It can also be used to somewhat manipulate the time the animals will visit a stand, how accustomed they are to human scent, etc. Having hunted a lot using virtually every method, without a doubt in my mind, baiting is most definitely EASIER than other methods and I really can't believe anyone that's not delusional can honestly believe otherwise. It's the reason it's such an effective method and sometimes required for management hunts.

 

 

 If it was no easier than other methods, people would not plunk down so much hard-earned money on buying bait. 

 

To compare it to hunting near a large crop field is also laughable. Every year I find bait piles on the edges of cornfields. Why? Because there is an advantage to concentrating the food source to within a shooting lane at a known distance. Otherwise people wouldn't waste the money, they are next to a ton of corn....But the deer will still eat the easier meal.

[Palawman30]

While I don't bait I don't care if others do. It's just not my preferred style of hunting.

I do believe just like cornfields, acorn flats and any other crop field bait piles do indeed habituate animals to use certain areas...

I'm not saying it's easier or harder to kill deer. I honestly don't know. I don't care. I do know jersey has way to many deer in areas with limited or little access so baiting is a tool used to pull deer off those private sanctuaries and for that reason alone( proper management) it should never be done away with.

[Palawman30]

Also I don't necessarily think its a good thing for kids to start out hunting by baiting. I'd rather see a kid learn how to become a good overall woodsman first and learn how to see the forest for the trees before dumping pile after pile of corn in a spot and start sitting over it for days on end.

I think baiting does tend to quell the actual scouting, learning to read sign, adjusting to an ever changing forest that hunters need. To each his own though.

[Bucksnbows]

Also I don't necessarily think its a good thing for kids to start out hunting by baiting. I'd rather see a kid learn how to become a good overall woodsman first and learn how to see the forest for the trees before dumping pile after pile of corn in a spot and start sitting over it for days on end.

I think baiting does tend to quell the actual scouting, learning to read sign, adjusting to an ever changing forest that hunters need. To each his own though.

 

 

I think Matty hit on something that I missed or came across as not consistent on which is that baiting can and often is "easier" than not baiting when it comes to deer hunting success.  But, I do think that baiting as a hunting method greatly benefits from what you say here, Palawman30, which is that you still need to read the sign and know where deer are travelling.  If you hunt a heavily hunted public land during muzzleloader or 6 Day and there are piles of corn all over, is baiting really a benefit if the deer had to pass a gauntlet to get to your stand?  In those cases, likely not.  But during fall bow when most hunters only get out once in a while and pressure is lower, it might be.  Either way, those piles closer to the bedding sites are likely to be higher success locations, and only knowing the woods and deer habits will help you find those spots if you plan to use bait.  Setting up far away from major food supplies and bedding areas might not be as successful as some think it is. Putting bait out behind your house in a woodlot that doesn't see hunting pressure is like shooting fish in a barrel with a bazooka, on the other hand. 

[Matty]

I can agree with that.

 

Baiting, while extremely effective, offering several advantages over other methods, is still NOT MAGIC. There are many cases where people are wasting their time and money putting it out because they perceive it to be a benefit to them, when that is not the case.  

 

When done in conjunction with proper reading of the situation, baiting greatly increases the odds of success. In other cases, I think the benefit is more-so  imagined than real.

 

Your example is very true of this.

 

If you hunt public access properties, you are still very likely faced with overcoming one of the biggest obstacles we all face; other hunters. Like it or not, there may be MANY acres of land available to hunt, but just because it's open to hunting, doesn't mean the deer walk around on every square inch. There are always going to be excellent spots, mediocre spots, and terrible spots. I would say that most people know how to at least somewhat recognize the difference, so competition becomes fierce at these better spots. I don't want to waste my time in a bad spot anymore than the next guy.

 

That's actually one of the major issues I have with baiting. When someone baits one of those excellent spots, they feel as though it's only their spot, even on days when they aren't hunting.

 

Now on the other hand, yes I'd be upset to realize that someone is hunting right near where I am hunting if I'm in a good spot (it happens)....But because I have no bait there, I'm not all that tied to the spot. I may have several hours of scouting and a couple hours in tree preparation invested into the spot, so I'm vested in it, but I always have more than one spot. Also, if I think it can be done effectively, I will still occasionally hunt the spot when the conditions are right and the other hunter is not there. Unless they've baited it, and then I avoid it because it will likely end in confrontation.

 

Another issue I have is that baiting artificially alters deer patterns, which can really screw someone up if they scout and scout and scout and setup the perfect spot, then suddenly a ton of corn gets dropped somewhere nearby and patterns shift.  Then if you adapt to the changing situation, you're the bad guy because you're cutting off someones bait pile. Well, I may not even know it's there. In season scouting for me consists of as little impact as possible, so I'm not going to traipse around the entire forest, I'm going to quickly relocate the deer and re-position my setups to intercept and kill them.

 

In controlled environments, like limited access lands or management hunts, where these types of things don't happen, I don't view baiting as a negative. On public land it's usually a nuisance at minimum.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Putting bait out behind your house in a woodlot that doesn't see hunting pressure is like shooting fish in a barrel with a bazooka, on the other hand.

 

I respectfully disagree because I'm doing exactly that with poor results.

 

Baiting is not a silver bullet. I decided to see what hunting over bait was like for the first time this year. I got a few hundred pounds of corn and poured out a bag in a spot behind my house that has deer (and bear) signs. Followed some advice I got to bait about 30'-40' off of a trail, set up some cams, and every couple of weeks topped off the pile. I'm going to check the SD cards in the two cameras I've got set up (I wasn't smart enough to buy extra SD cards instead thinking that I'll drag a laptop into the woods...wrong!) today, but when I was up there a week ago there were only 30 photos on one camera.

 

I agree that you won't get a deer unless you put the time in to learn your prey. And depending on where you are in the country, you probably need to adjust your hunting methods. When I hunt in Pittsburg, NH, I use a 30-06 or 308. I also follow snow tracks for miles to get deer. I choose this method to hunt because I don't have time to scout the area for deer signs and baiting obviously is ineffective if I drop a pile in the woods the day before I hunt.

 

I've done drives with posters on private land with varying success. This too requires a good knowledge of where the deer are and the general terrain you're driving. As mentioned above, if you don't put the work in, you'll just drive the deer into places where no one is going to find them.

 

So I don't think any method of hunting is better or more sure fire than another without putting some diligence into learning the area you're hunting and identifying deer signs. We all know deer are creatures of habit, and until you know their habits, don't expect to see any.

 

What we haven't talked about are hunting over fake scrapes and drips. Are these silver bullet, sure fire ways to whack deer? Are they a significant improvement to hunting over bait? Is it similar to hunting over bait?

 

I've never hunted scrapes or drips before, but am considering trying it out just as I'm trying out baiting. I squarely put the blame on palawman30 for piquing my interest (damn you and your aggressive marketing! ). So I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on those methods of hunting in this thread.

[Matty]

What we haven't talked about are hunting over fake scrapes and drips. Are these silver bullet, sure fire ways to whack deer? Are they a significant improvement to hunting over bait? Is it similar to hunting over bait?

 

I've never hunted scrapes or drips before, but am considering trying it out just as I'm trying out baiting. I squarely put the blame on palawman30 for piquing my interest (damn you and your aggressive marketing! ). So I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on those methods of hunting in this thread.

 

 

 

As we've mentioned, every method has it's place in the sun, when it outshines other methods, some more often than others. However, any of them when done incorrectly, will likely lead to disappointment.

 

Personally, I rarely ever bait (pretty much never), so scrapes are one of the main ways I get trail cam pictures of bucks (when I actually bother using cams).

 

They can be excellent for getting an inventory on the bucks you have in the area, but aren't always the most effective way to hunt them.

 

Bucks, in my observations, typically make most of their visits to scrapes at night (though daytime visits happen too). They also scent-check scrapes from downwind and loop around into a scrape. So hunting right over a scrape can do more harm than good, especially if you're targeting pressured, mature bucks. Unpressured deer don't typically behave as cautiously.

 

 

That being said, scrapes and drippers are another tool to try and utilize. They won't always help, but they can improve your odds if you approach them correctly.

 

By the way, it's not at all difficult to make your own scrape drippers. The store bought ones are so expensive for what they are. It's nothing more than a change in air pressure due to sunlight creating heat inside a mostly empty glass bottle that causes them to drip in the daytime. 

 

Baby bottles (glass or very rigid plastic) make great scrape drippers, so do syrup bottles (real maple syrup in glass bottles)...All you need is some rubber tubing, bubble wrap and dark fabric to cover the bottle.

 

I've actually been testing out a few new scents from a local deer urine farmer this year. He's getting into trying to mix up the perfect scrape concoction. So far the one scent he created has been dynamite. I just haven't had the right opportunity to try and hunt the scrapes.

[Bucksnbows]

I respectfully disagree because I'm doing exactly that with poor results.

 

Baiting is not a silver bullet. I decided to see what hunting over bait was like for the first time this year. I got a few hundred pounds of corn and poured out a bag in a spot behind my house that has deer (and bear) signs. Followed some advice I got to bait about 30'-40' off of a trail, set up some cams, and every couple of weeks topped off the pile. I'm going to check the SD cards in the two cameras I've got set up (I wasn't smart enough to buy extra SD cards instead thinking that I'll drag a laptop into the woods...wrong!) today, but when I was up there a week ago there were only 30 photos on one camera.

 

 

What we haven't talked about are hunting over fake scrapes and drips. Are these silver bullet, sure fire ways to whack deer? Are they a significant improvement to hunting over bait? Is it similar to hunting over bait?

 

I've never hunted scrapes or drips before, but am considering trying it out just as I'm trying out baiting. I squarely put the blame on palawman30 for piquing my interest (damn you and your aggressive marketing! ). So I'm interested to hear people's thoughts on those methods of hunting in this thread.

 

To your first point, my backyard woodlot is one of those that are overrun with deer year round and where you need at least one neighbor's written permission to legally hunt it.  I see only does for 10 months out of every year and almost every time I look out my window year round.  During the 2 months or so of the rut, I have bucks cruising the woodlot here and in other parts of the neighborhood looking to breed the ladies.  Then they disappear back to other larger tracts of woods without hunting pressure (combo of private lands with no hunting and town lands with same).  

 

 

As for your comments and questions about hunting over scrapes with or without drips, my findings are much like those of Matty's.  Most bucks check their scrapes at night.  But I have had some luck (mostly doing it for buddies before I took up the bow) grunting and rattling near an active scrape line in daylight hours.  If you're in the woods during the right time and find lots of buck sign, find a great tree that beats the wind and is close enough to the sign, try grunting and rattling and the bucks will most often come in looking for a fight.  Once the rut is in full swing, find the ladies and hope your buck stops chasing long enough and close enough for a shot.    

Edited October 14, 2014 by Bucksnbows

[Rusty]

I'm off to film some fish in a barrel.  I'll let you know how easy it is to shoot them. 

[Bucksnbows]

I'm off to film some fish in a barrel.  I'll let you know how easy it is to shoot them. 

For some of us, harder than for others......