Good Blackhorn 209 article...

[nmc02]

1 minute ago, Jcol6268 said:

I’m currently running Barnes TEZ 290s. You think they are no better then PBs? Haven’t used them on game yet. 

No....no better than Barnes. PB were horrible...in my opinion. Prefer tmz over tez

[Booner]

33 minutes ago, tcook8296 said:

Whats wrong with the 700 muzzleloader. I own one and it shoots excellent?

120 gr of bh and a 250 gr accutip its the best shooting muzzleloader I have owned. 

Ive been shooting muzzys since the inlines came out

Mr Cook. That comment wasn't directed to you. Didn't even know you owned one. 

But what I meant by the comment, the old regular 700ml compared to the new 700 ultimate is a huge difference. 

While the ultimate claims long range thru high doses of propellant and long barrel, its not needed with the old 700. Two entirely  different  barrels and actions. Now I'm talking black powder not smokeless here. 

The old 700 was designed around the same specs and materials as a centerfire rifle. Yes the bolt/breach at first was crappy, but with a few extras that problem is gone( blowback ). With the stronger action, an actual 700 rifle short action, its a much more consistent action. With black powder( equivalent) you'll never stress that gun. I personally  know many many people who shoot the 700ml after converting the breach and bolt nose, to the same ballistics of a 30/06. 400+ yards. This is mostly done with the .45cal. Its a shame most manufacturers  stopped the .45cal. Now its the most sought after. 

The newer 700 ultimate is a good gun by all means. Just when compared to the 700ml there's a big difference.  The use of rifle cartridges was used 15 years ago. It was learned that the system is flawed. Lots of gas loss like when using a regular breach plug with a 209. The only thing it does is hide the fact theres blowback. Your scope is clean and so is the breach area. The barrel is made of a different grade steel, which is fine cause its rated for that huge load of propellant. I know your not using that in NJ, nor are any of us shooting 300yrds here. 

Bottom line is guns are like archery. Consistency Consistency Consistency. You can have a crappy bow and form but if you do the same thing consistently  your good. With a muzzy, blowback is your biggest enemy. Have a shot string of +-250fps, your groups are going to show. 

Again for NJ, lots of this doesn't matter. For my place in NY or yours in Illinois  it may make the difference. 

Yes I like accurate things

[Booner]

41 minutes ago, tcook8296 said:

Whats considered old and whats considered new?

Old is the discontinued original 700ml. 

New is the 700 ultimate

[MGHunter66]

1 hour ago, Jcol6268 said:

Oh man I haven’t. I didn’t know that about them. Have you shot game with them? How do they perform? 

Don’t know yet, first year with muzzy but when I let one rip I will let you know

[Mallard1100]

21 minutes ago, MGHunter66 said:

Don’t know yet, first year with muzzy but when I let one rip I will let you know

I shoot the exact setup.  Accuracy is unreal. Excellent results on game. No complaints on the areolites that’s for sure. 

[Deerhunter]

Encore  110 grains of Black horn 209 with 250 grain Thor bullet.

 

[nmc02]

35 minutes ago, Deerhunter said:

Encore  110 grains of Black horn 209 with 250 grain Thor bullet.

 

Horrible shot placement 

[archer36]

I made the switch this year. Always used the dirty ass Pyrodex pellets because of convenience. Once I ran out, I looked for an alternative. I bought the BH209 breech plug for my CVA Accura V2. On the advice of guys on here, I purchased the CCI magnum primers. Last spring I did some initial testing and everything was fine. I accidentally used regular 209 shotshell primers this fall before the season opened and was getting delayed ignition. Then I realized I was using the wrong primer. Definitely need the "magnum" primers. I like the "clean" shooting compared to Pyrodex. I like the convenience of pellets over powder though. When I run out of BH209, maybe I'll look for something else. There is lots of testimony out there to the accuracy of BH209 at longer ranges. That doesn't concern me that much. I have never needed to shoot a deer past 75 yds.

[smittty]

On 12/2/2020 at 6:30 PM, Booner said:

Mr Cook. That comment wasn't directed to you. Didn't even know you owned one. 

But what I meant by the comment, the old regular 700ml compared to the new 700 ultimate is a huge difference. 

While the ultimate claims long range thru high doses of propellant and long barrel, its not needed with the old 700. Two entirely  different  barrels and actions. Now I'm talking black powder not smokeless here. 

The old 700 was designed around the same specs and materials as a centerfire rifle. Yes the bolt/breach at first was crappy, but with a few extras that problem is gone( blowback ). With the stronger action, an actual 700 rifle short action, its a much more consistent action. With black powder( equivalent) you'll never stress that gun. I personally  know many many people who shoot the 700ml after converting the breach and bolt nose, to the same ballistics of a 30/06. 400+ yards. This is mostly done with the .45cal. Its a shame most manufacturers  stopped the .45cal. Now its the most sought after. 

The newer 700 ultimate is a good gun by all means. Just when compared to the 700ml there's a big difference.  The use of rifle cartridges was used 15 years ago. It was learned that the system is flawed. Lots of gas loss like when using a regular breach plug with a 209. The only thing it does is hide the fact theres blowback. Your scope is clean and so is the breach area. The barrel is made of a different grade steel, which is fine cause its rated for that huge load of propellant. I know your not using that in NJ, nor are any of us shooting 300yrds here. 

Bottom line is guns are like archery. Consistency Consistency Consistency. You can have a crappy bow and form but if you do the same thing consistently  your good. With a muzzy, blowback is your biggest enemy. Have a shot string of +-250fps, your groups are going to show. 

Again for NJ, lots of this doesn't matter. For my place in NY or yours in Illinois  it may make the difference. 

Yes I like accurate things

Ok mike you talked me into it. I’ll take it. When do you want me to pick it up.I’ll bring cash

[Booner]

2 minutes ago, smittty said:

Ok mike you talked me into it. I’ll take it. When do you want me to pick it up.I’ll bring cash

I'll trade you a custom for a kp1

[smittty]

6 minutes ago, Booner said:

I'll trade you a custom for a kp1

Ohhh noooo thanks anyway. But you really go my wheels turning 

[Booner]

1 hour ago, smittty said:

Ohhh noooo thanks anyway. But you really go my wheels turning 

If interested  in it I can point you in the right direction. Or look into the savage ml2. Black powder or smokeless doesn't matter. Has accu-trigger and vent liners. 

Or,,,,https://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/board/23?page=6&page=14

Lots of good info

[68Ioweu1]

On 12/2/2020 at 6:30 PM, Booner said:

Mr Cook. That comment wasn't directed to you. Didn't even know you owned one. 

But what I meant by the comment, the old regular 700ml compared to the new 700 ultimate is a huge difference. 

While the ultimate claims long range thru high doses of propellant and long barrel, its not needed with the old 700. Two entirely  different  barrels and actions. Now I'm talking black powder not smokeless here. 

The old 700 was designed around the same specs and materials as a centerfire rifle. Yes the bolt/breach at first was crappy, but with a few extras that problem is gone( blowback ). With the stronger action, an actual 700 rifle short action, its a much more consistent action. With black powder( equivalent) you'll never stress that gun. I personally  know many many people who shoot the 700ml after converting the breach and bolt nose, to the same ballistics of a 30/06. 400+ yards. This is mostly done with the .45cal. Its a shame most manufacturers  stopped the .45cal. Now its the most sought after. 

The newer 700 ultimate is a good gun by all means. Just when compared to the 700ml there's a big difference.  The use of rifle cartridges was used 15 years ago. It was learned that the system is flawed. Lots of gas loss like when using a regular breach plug with a 209. The only thing it does is hide the fact theres blowback. Your scope is clean and so is the breach area. The barrel is made of a different grade steel, which is fine cause its rated for that huge load of propellant. I know your not using that in NJ, nor are any of us shooting 300yrds here. 

Bottom line is guns are like archery. Consistency Consistency Consistency. You can have a crappy bow and form but if you do the same thing consistently  your good. With a muzzy, blowback is your biggest enemy. Have a shot string of +-250fps, your groups are going to show. 

Again for NJ, lots of this doesn't matter. For my place in NY or yours in Illinois  it may make the difference. 

Yes I like accurate things

Is it possible to just know the shit you forgot about this stuff?? 
I’ve read everything you wrote, very interesting stuff and you are extremely knowledgeable. 

I guess I’m on search mode for an original Mod700 ML .45 cal now! Thanks a lot! 😆 

[Lunatic]

On 12/2/2020 at 8:44 AM, Gman said:

I tried Black Horn and failed. I'm shooting a  T/C Triumph Bone collector.  Too many ignition failures, I would never have confidence.  I hear great things, I just couldn't get it to fire consistently, I tried everything, different primers, tighter bullets and no go.  I suppose it's possible I just got a bad bottle but I gave up on it.

 

I have TC pro hunter for 10 years+-. never used anything but pyrodex and never had any problems. If I am at the range I do one swipe after 3 shots but I hardly ever take more than 3 to sight the gun. 
 

I never missed or not recovers an animal with this gun. This is my last one at 125yards

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Lunatic

[Deerhunter]

22 hours ago, nmc02 said:

Horrible shot placement 

Yeah I'm known for that.