Cluster at Colliers Mills Part 2.

[Fishman]

07:45 this morning arrived at Colliers Mills Dog Training Area. Two of the Navisink Retriever club members were unloading their trailer and setting up in the field adjacent to the dog training area.  I walked over and asked who was in charge?  A guy said stepped forward and said he was running the event. I asked why his members were denying hunters excess to the dog training area and was he aware the state stocked birds Friday for training purpose? He said yes and explained they were behind due to the virus and had a permit and set up in the dog training area. I asked to see the permit and he said yes, it's on my phone. After 10 minuets he was UNABLE TO PRODUCE THE PERMIT. I wasted enough time with this guy and entered the fields. The dog's pointed Two live chucker's and found One dead.
 

[BowhunterNJ]

CO confirmed to me yesterday they had a permit.  I asked after seeing your post.  

[Mixbaghunter]

Like i said yesterday  when i was going to join all non hunters all they care about was getting dog title.  And retrieving mostly duck i don't think they use live birds . 

[RPK0620]

The permit that they have allows them as an organization to have an event on state land..... it doesn't give them the authority to  police the land and prohibit access to others.

And the DIV F&W  should specify that to them.    PLAY NICE AND SHARE  !

[BowhunterNJ]

1 hour ago, RPK0620 said:

The permit that they have allows them as an organization to have an event on state land..... it doesn't give them the authority to  police the land and prohibit access to others.

And the DIV F&W  should specify that to them.    PLAY NICE AND SHARE  !

Again I think it comes down to a large group using a public space and others also wanting to use that space.  You can run into this in a variety of ways, say trout fishing or even a picnic at a park.  Per the CO, it's considered first come first serve and the sense I got was it was a courtesy aspect to respect who is there first.  Obviously morals/ethics/courtesy varies between people.  However it can get "overboard". Imagine a group of 50 showed up to fish a small stocked pond that can only house 30 people.  You are entitled to fish it as much as they are, they can't tell you aren't allowed to, but it will be overcrowded and not very fun.  You can't control the stocking dates, so you have to fish during them.  I can remember growing up I'd shoot at Turkey Swamp's bow range.  Occasionally a large group of traditional shooters would come and literally take over the range putting giant round targets in front of the bales to where no one else could shoot.  That's just being selfish, and there is a line where you or your group may be "taking over" an area that isn't meant to be.  I don't know if that is the case here as there are other areas and other fields, but I don't know what else is stocked for training. 

Ultimately there is a point where there isn't enough area to support those wanting to use it and then you have a problem.  My first inclination is that public lands paid for by hunters with limited area shouldn't be used to support large scale events that prevent the hunters who paid for that area from using it for hunting or training.  These groups could say they too are hunters and have an equal right to the area, but once you start getting out of state people driving in who don't actually hunt here and are only interested in the "testing" and certification, then it gets muddy.  

[Bmelvin]

17 hours ago, Mixbaghunter said:

Like i said yesterday  when i was going to join all non hunters all they care about was getting dog title.  And retrieving mostly duck i don't think they use live birds . 

Your statement is completely false.  Navesink is full of hunters along with non hunters. I have hunted with a dozen or more members from that group and most are great people. I was a member for many years and even on the board for a few. Live Birds are always used along with dead birds for obvious reasons.  I have been in the dog game for a long time and know all the groups around our area. Non of them are perfect but I can promise you they all are trying to better their dogs for one reason or another. 

[RPK0620]

Look,   at any other time of the year this wouldn't have been a problem !  

However, prior to bird season the Div F&W has stated that they will be putting birds in the dog training areas specifically for bird hunters to get some time afield with their dogs on some live birds before the season starts.  

The person(s) at Navasink, since they are full of hunters know this but decided that instead of using the open fields or ponds which they USUALLY use they decided to do otherwise.  

3 hours ago, Bmelvin said:

 Non of them are perfect but I can promise you they all are trying to better their dogs for one reason or another. 

And so was Charlie and any others who encountered them. 

Gimme a freaking break ! !    

[Fishman]

On 10/18/2020 at 5:18 PM, Mixbaghunter said:

Like i said yesterday  when i was going to join all non hunters all they care about was getting dog title.  And retrieving mostly duck i don't think they use live birds . 

The had two crates full of live birds.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Fishman

[Lunatic]

I think the problem with what they are doing is timing. However, with the Covid BS timing is off on everything

[bnknj]

On 10/18/2020 at 5:18 PM, Mixbaghunter said:

Like i said yesterday  when i was going to join all non hunters all they care about was getting dog title.  And retrieving mostly duck i don't think they use live birds . 

I'm a member and have been to a couple training days.  They shoot live birds on training days and for hunt tests.                     A majority of the members are hunters, but I was surprised to find out that there's a lot that do not hunt and just do hunt tests.   I joined because I'm in the middle of training my first dog and wanted to see how more experienced dog owners trained and handled there dogs.  Most people I've met are very helpful, nice people.  But, I've also encountered a very small number who are not.

[cewoz560]

So I am curious why the second post? Did the first one not get enough attention? At this point this is a bitch post about a group that had a permit to use an area that you wanted to use.

I do not think there is much you can do about except trying make this group seem like inconsiderate butt heads which I think you accomplished.

Have a great day and good luck Nov 7th!

Btw hunting upland I have had guys shoot directly towards me and my dog because I decided not to join them in the original lineup and they were coming back down the field I was going up!

Talk about a-holes!!!!


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[birddogger]

I was wondering about the second bite of the apple myself.    Like I said previously, I used Colliers quite a bit when I lived in Jersey, and never had a problem.   But there are plenty of other places to go and train your dog. 

Perhaps I was fortunate.  I lived in South Plainfield and was within striking distance of a whole bunch of WMA's that had dog training areas.   Clinton and  Black River were within an hour to the north and west and Colliers and Greenwood were  an hour and a half to the south.  Assunpink was 45 minutes away.   Lots of choices. and most of the time, I had the places pretty much to myself.  If i hit Colliers and there were too many folks there, i would either head back north to Assunpink or down south to Greenwood.  No big deal really.    More often than not, I had a crate with a few birds with me, so I could train, rather than just run my dog and hope for a contact with the state stocked birds.  Three or four birds were all I needed to work  one or two dogs.  Not a huge expense then and still not today.  

Now...Folks have no business blocking roads.  That is unacceptable and they should be reported to the authorities for that and citations should be issued.  Other than that...get over it...they were there first.  Go someplace else where there ain't nobody and have fun with your dog. 

   Buy a couple of birds for your dog.  He probably deserves it.   I buy birds for mine because they have to put up with me.

 

 

[BowhunterNJ]

I think the second bite was because it was a different day (2 day event?) and different person with the same lack of permit information.  Same kind of outcome but it didnt sound like the event organizer was preventing access.   They were just setting up. 

[smittty]

I train at the mill spring and summer. When I get there and see someone or a large group in a field I move on mainly because I don’t have play well with others. But that being said I expect the same respect from others witch seems to be a tall order at the mill. Just the last few months just as i finished putting birds out on more than one occasion I had guy park 50 yards from me and let there dogs go needless to say they got a verbal lashing and one time I had birds out and was walking back in with my dogs here comes a guy waking down the path with one of my 400.00 luanchers 

Edited October 22, 2020 by smittty

[birddogger]

Smitty - 

I occasionally had the same sort of encounter at Colliers.  Thievery was a constant down there.  I guess it hasn't changed.  They would steal dog bowls with water in them.   Colliers was like parking your work truck on the street in downtown Newark or Jersey City.    Lots of folks with sticky fingers.

I generally used tip up cages there, but I locked them to a tree with padlocked steel cable.  When I was by myself I ALWAYS kept the vehicle and trailer locked, with dogs inside.  Many times I saw footprints in the sand next to my horse trailer door where the dogs were. It was locked, but you gotta know they tried it.  When I went down with just the dogs, I always locked the truck cap for the same reason.  The only window I opened was the slider in the front of the camper cap, next to the truck cab.  They never messed with the horse stuff which is good I guess, but i didn't leave much of that out either.

Didn't have that at Assunpink or Greenwood, Black River or Clinton...at least I never experienced it at those places. 

Probably just lucky.  

RayG