Jump to content

Cluster at Colliers Mills


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Fishman said:

Exactly! I don't understand why the Navasink Group would set up in the middle of the dog training area, knowing the the state stocked birds for training. Then claim the area for themselves.

I think you answered your own question. Seems they wanted to take advantage of the “public” birds stocked to supplement their own. 
A bit greedy and unfair in my opinion. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, birddogger said:

 

Guys - 

 

Unless I am mistaken Colliers Mills encompasses about 11,000acres or so.  At least it used to.  Also there is(or used to be) a second water impoundment farther back on the property with associated fields.  The interior impoundment was bigger and the fields smaller than the ones up front, but there  was plenty of  room to run my dogs there, and I assure you, my dogs run waaaaay bigger than anything you have.

I strongly suspect the Nahra folks did have a permit, which they paid for, BTW.  If it was a hunt test, it is entirely likely that most of the folks there paid entry fees to compete and the club put out birds for the competitors.  I suspect that your actions did not contribute to the success of the event.

I used to see the same kind of behavior you exhibited from "sportsmen" when we ran horseback field trials at the Assunpink.   Folks came from four or five states away to compete and paid $50  to run their dog for a half hour.  Some of the trials had one hour heats where the competitors paid $100-300 per  dog to enter and compete.  Some of those folks came from as far away as Georgia, Alabama, Missouri and Tennessee hauling dogs and horses.     Trials cost thousands of dollars to put on and a couple of self centered jackasses could screw up the whole thing...and sometimes did.

Because of horse riders and other "sportsmen" who didn't care to share the open spaces, there are no field trials at the Assunpink any longer.  Just not worth the hassle.  

I just wanted to give you someone else's perspective on the use of WMA's by your fellow  sportsmen.

Thank you for your consideration.

RayG  

 

 

 

 

 

I  don’t know anything about this but maybe it is not a good idea to hold private invents on public land

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys -

 

I'd also be willing to bet that a fair number of the folks you are castigating for "hogging"  the area at Colliers have valid NJ hunting licenses and probably pheasant stamps as well.    You should be aware of the fact that the people who compete with their dogs are some of the most vocal and involved sportsmen in any given state.  They are the ones who push the state to mow and cultivate and  keep the grounds in some sort of decent state for upland hunting.  Without pressure, the state, any state, would be perfectly happy to let their grounds grow up into forests and impenetrable tangles and do the minimum amount of roadway maintenance, put up signs on the perimeter, drive around and call it a day.  

The fact of the matter is that the state makes  a large portion of its revenue from deer hunting, with permits, extended seasons and what all, while spending almost nothing and doing almost nothing.  Maintaining upland habitat is time consuming, hard work and expensive...AND you need a lot of it.    One upland hunting party require a large number of acres to have a decent hunt.  A deer hunter can do just fine in a ten acre woodplot.  

Guess which path the state wildlife agency in any given state will choose to pursue if they are not pressured?  

 

RayG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Winner 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I belong to a different club and we also have to purchase a permit to be able to use live fire on birds or ducks for training and or trials. We will usually use the whole area depending on our needs. However we never use the dog training area and have never told others that they could not use it while we were there.

Field trials takes months to plan and organize and costs the handlers $100 or more which goes to pay for the game needed. Any club running a trial would have more then enough game to complete the trial and would not be supplementing with state stocked birds. The judges want to know where the birds are so they can observe the dog and the dogs reaction point, nose etc. And yes because of all the time spent training, the waiting around waiting to be tested, the pressure of the test some of us can get grouchy and downright angry if someone outside comes in and may distract us or the dogs and could cause them to fail and have to retake the test if one is even available. Our club tests to ensure our dogs are great hunters some other clubs imo test to prove who is the best trainer.

It is a lot of pressure!!!!

Typically all these trials and trainings are completed before hunting season or on Sundays to avoid spoiling another hunters hunt. Now this covid year has changed all the rules and most trials which are usually done over the summer had to be pushed to later in the year and is probably why you encountered them. As unfortunate as it is many of these trials have to be done by the age of the dog and needed to be able to complete the dogs training and to be ready for Nov 7th...

Today and this is an assumption on my part perhaps they were using the dog training area to avoid ruining another hunters deer hunt??? Or they were doing blood tracking or drags and wanted to make sure there dogs were not mistaken for a coyote or something in order to keep them safe...

If there was private ground our club or any club would prefer to use that over public land. However it's really hard to get the conditions needed to facilitate an actual hunting situation woods, water, cover to be able to complete the trial in 1 or 2 days. Also some private lands farmers will not let you use because of insurance reasons even if a waiver is signed in nj at least you can still to sue or try to sue the landowner
If you get hurt...

Just my two cents and perspective from a hunter and owner of a dog that has done trials to help me and her be better hunters!
I do not belong to the club that was there today!
a39bbabe2ee015170942d320a66d5bd5.jpg

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, cewoz560 said:


Today and this is an assumption on my part perhaps they were using the dog training area to avoid ruining another hunters deer hunt??? Or they were doing blood tracking or drags and wanted to make sure there dogs were not mistaken for a coyote or something in order to keep them safe...
 

The only problem I have with this is that the front and middle fields where they usually do most all club training was available AND deer hunters know better and are not in the front part where the open fields are nor back in the dog training area....   I run my dog there regularly and have never encountered deer hunters.  And these Navasink people are there often also and knew exactly where they were .

  • Agree 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, cewoz560 said:

I belong to a different club and we also have to purchase a permit to be able to use live fire on birds or ducks for training and or trials. We will usually use the whole area depending on our needs. However we never use the dog training area and have never told others that they could not use it while we were there.

Field trials takes months to plan and organize and costs the handlers $100 or more which goes to pay for the game needed. Any club running a trial would have more then enough game to complete the trial and would not be supplementing with state stocked birds. The judges want to know where the birds are so they can observe the dog and the dogs reaction point, nose etc. And yes because of all the time spent training, the waiting around waiting to be tested, the pressure of the test some of us can get grouchy and downright angry if someone outside comes in and may distract us or the dogs and could cause them to fail and have to retake the test if one is even available. Our club tests to ensure our dogs are great hunters some other clubs imo test to prove who is the best trainer.

It is a lot of pressure!!!!

Typically all these trials and trainings are completed before hunting season or on Sundays to avoid spoiling another hunters hunt. Now this covid year has changed all the rules and most trials which are usually done over the summer had to be pushed to later in the year and is probably why you encountered them. As unfortunate as it is many of these trials have to be done by the age of the dog and needed to be able to complete the dogs training and to be ready for Nov 7th...

Today and this is an assumption on my part perhaps they were using the dog training area to avoid ruining another hunters deer hunt??? Or they were doing blood tracking or drags and wanted to make sure there dogs were not mistaken for a coyote or something in order to keep them safe...

If there was private ground our club or any club would prefer to use that over public land. However it's really hard to get the conditions needed to facilitate an actual hunting situation woods, water, cover to be able to complete the trial in 1 or 2 days. Also some private lands farmers will not let you use because of insurance reasons even if a waiver is signed in nj at least you can still to sue or try to sue the landowner
If you get hurt...

Just my two cents and perspective from a hunter and owner of a dog that has done trials to help me and her be better hunters!
I do not belong to the club that was there today!
a39bbabe2ee015170942d320a66d5bd5.jpg

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

So clubs like this don't lease or own land to do this, train, get together etc?

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Lunatic said:

So clubs like this don't lease or own land to do this, train, get together etc?

NAVHDA and the Navasink clubs don't have their own property for training as far as I know. Unlike the English Setter Club in Medford, NJ.  They may train at other places but for the majority of their training and trials they use Colliers, Assunpink & Greenwood. Which I don't have a problem with because they do buy permits however some of them, for whatever reason believe the now have exclusive use of the land.  

And as someone else mentioned and I tend to agree, a lot of them are not upland bird hunters but strictly field trials and have an attitude ( like Charlie I have run into them also).

Edited by RPK0620
Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Lunatic said:

So clubs like this don't lease or own land to do this, train, get together etc?

These clubs train and meet 1-2 times a month for the most part. It would make zero economic sense to lease land if the state legally allows you to use WMAs. 
 

the fact that clubs use wma land constantly year round and this is the first time we are hearing the issue, it’s most likely the OP ran Into a bad person and the club was being slightly over confident in their use of land. 
 

as mentioned- this isn’t usually an issue bc of timing but covid messed it all up. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Hawkeye57 said:

These clubs train and meet 1-2 times a month for the most part. It would make zero economic sense to lease land if the state legally allows you to use WMAs. 
 

the fact that clubs use wma land constantly year round and this is the first time we are hearing the issue, it’s most likely the OP ran Into a bad person and the club was being slightly over confident in their use of land. 
 

as mentioned- this isn’t usually an issue bc of timing but covid messed it all up. 

Agree with most of what you said. Yesterday they used areas that are not generally used. As Vito said they udually use the front firlds. Yesterday they started in dog training area and in afternoon moved to other areas. Two things happened. I know of a guy who was in his deer ztand when they made this afternoon move.  He drove an hour to hunt 30 minutes since he had dogs and guns going off 40 yds from him. The second issue was with a loose dog and the group blocking the road and not allowing vehicles through. 

The more, better trained dogs in the world is a good thing. If they used the front fields like every other group none of this stuff would have been an issue. And there have been a few posts over the years about these groups. Yesterday was just over the top. I want them to train. Lets just get it organized properly and use designated areas such as those front fields.  If additional area is needed them continue towards powerline. Same areas usually hunted for upland bitds. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Again no to belabor the point the front fields are good for chuckars, some short drags... Other drags need to be 500 feet or more through the woods etc...can't do that upfront in many areas. Our club has run into this particular club when we have the permit and yes we may let them know that we have the permit and we would kindly ask them to be cognizant of were we are and not crowd us. Most listened some do not....

Also needing more space as to not leave too much scent as it will confuse a new dog too much. When we train on the front fields we usually use about 250 sq ft or more per dog and move further in as needed.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...