Training steady but flush on command

[smittty]

Has anyone here ever trained a pointing dog to be steady to wing and shot but flush on command. It something I’ve always thought of trying but just never did but I might give it a go. What I’m thinking is steady on point then flush on command Then steady again when bird flushes and trough shot then retrieve on command 

[archer36]

Steady on Wing and Shot is more of a Field Trial concept. There are trials that are called "Shoot to Retrieve" that are more like hunting situations. I see no benefit in keeping a dog steady at the shot unless you miss and the dog runs into the next county. 

[Hawkeye57]

2 minutes ago, smittty said:

Has anyone here ever trained a pointing dog to be steady to wing and shot but flush on command. It something I’ve always thought of trying but just never did but I might give it a go. What I’m thinking is steady on point then flush on command Then steady again when bird flushes and trough shot then retrieve on command 

Smitty- I did that. Yes, it is awesome to have dog go on point and if I cant see or find the bird- I say "ok" and he dives in for the flush. However, he is not steady to shot after that- he is hard charging for the retrieve. If I do not give the command "ok" while on point, he stays steady to flush and shot. 

 

Does that make sense? It was too confusing for him and me during training for him to be commanded to flush but then not follow through. To him, it has almost become  a "treat" when i allow the command flush. Any good bird dog with drive WANTS to catch the bird. However, a good bird dog hunts for YOU and stays on point for as long as needed- for YOU. 

 

I will say his steadiness has decreased since I trained the "command to flush" but I am happy with him. Honestly, best upland dog i have ever had and never tested him and he isnt 100% like former dogs- but he gets it done in any state I take him too- his style hunting is perfect for crazy WMA war zone hunting. 

 

I know you are well versed in bird dogs and training so not giving any advice. Just know that once you train the command flush, it is hard to keep the dog steady to the expectations you had prior. 

[Hawkeye57]

3 minutes ago, archer36 said:

Steady on Wing and Shot is more of a Field Trial concept. There are trials that are called "Shoot to Retrieve" that are more like hunting situations. I see no benefit in keeping a dog steady at the shot unless you miss and the dog runs into the next county. 

Archer- for most part I agree. However, it comes most in handy for respect of other hunters/dogs. Too often when workign multiple dogs- if not steady to flush- one dog always breaks in from an angle you dont see or you get dogs that become agressive with each other. I was hutning with a guy that had an AMAZING pointer. However, after his dog "stole" 2 birds from my guy- it turned ugly. Being in the middle of nowhere kansas, dog fights are last thing you want to worry about! it also is better out in open area. On nj wma it is pointless.

[archer36]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye57 said:

Archer- for most part I agree. However, it comes most in handy for respect of other hunters/dogs. Too often when workign multiple dogs- if not steady to flush- one dog always breaks in from an angle you dont see or you get dogs that become agressive with each other. I was hutning with a guy that had an AMAZING pointer. However, after his dog "stole" 2 birds from my guy- it turned ugly. Being in the middle of nowhere kansas, dog fights are last thing you want to worry about! it also is better out in open area. On nj wma it is pointless.

You may have misunderstood me. I said that it's acceptable for a dog to break point AFTER the bird flushes, not to move in and steal birds before they flush.  It happens though. Dogs "backing" other dog's point is a desired behavior no doubt. WE know most dogs are not perfectly trained. 

[Hawkeye57]

11 minutes ago, archer36 said:

You may have misunderstood me. I said that it's acceptable for a dog to break point AFTER the bird flushes, not to move in and steal birds before they flush.  It happens though. Dogs "backing" other dog's point is a desired behavior no doubt. WE know most dogs are not perfectly trained. 

I did misunderstand. Thanks. Agree. I’ve trained a few dogs to be steady after flush but it is pointless when in real world situation. 
 

you will hear guys say it is for safety reason  but if you are shooting birds at a line drive in front of you- the shooter is unsafe not the dog! 

[smittty]

It’s more then a safety thing. How many times  have you missed the shot a your dogs took chase only to bust another bird or birds. Then ther is the argument that when a dog breaks on flush will find and retrieve more  cripples. It’s all to each there own. I just want to play I love training and it would be just something else to throw in the mix. Also if done correctly I believe you would not have to give up any steadyness you would have to get the dog completely finished then the following spring  start the flush command. I. Don’t think it would be a good idea to try it on a young dog. I have a few ideas I may try it up the road

[birddogger]

Smitty - 

Many years ago, a fellow had a shorthair that he trained to be dead steady to flush and shot.  Since he hunted pheasants in cover...a lot... he also trained the dog to take ONE step towards the bird...on command ...and then lock back up.   This was an awesome tactic for the single hunter, allowing the hunter to position themselves for the best possible shot. With two hunters, the bird usually did not have a chance.

Inky(the GSP) would take one step at each command.   Just one.  Heckuva dog...heckuva trainer.

I was young and stupid and did not think to ask exactly how he did it.   He is long gone now and  his knowledge is lost.  I think I know a way, but I've never tried it.

If you know someone who trials in England or perhaps in Europe, they may know how to train this behavior.

RayG

 

 

[smittty]

52 minutes ago, birddogger said:

Smitty - 

Many years ago, a fellow had a shorthair that he trained to be dead steady to flush and shot.  Since he hunted pheasants in cover...a lot... he also trained the dog to take ONE step towards the bird...on command ...and then lock back up.   This was an awesome tactic for the single hunter, allowing the hunter to position themselves for the best possible shot. With two hunters, the bird usually did not have a chance.

Inky(the GSP) would take one step at each command.   Just one.  Heckuva dog...heckuva trainer.

I was young and stupid and did not think to ask exactly how he did it.   He is long gone now and  his knowledge is lost.  I think I know a way, but I've never tried it.

If you know someone who trials in England or perhaps in Europe, they may know how to train this behavior.

RayG

 

 

Got ya good Ray and same here I got a few ideas. Also I think I remember years back someone on the west coast was doing this with a lot of success that’s kind of where I got the I got to try this thing from. Can’t remember who the heck it was. Any way will see what happens at this moment I don’t have a dog ready for that there’re ether two old or to young maybe in the fall