Are We a Dying Breed?

[hunterbob1]

Tom been there done that. Those days are done. Try today some old lady will call the cops on you have swat down in the house.

[Mr12gauge]

45 minutes ago, Swamp_Yankee said:

FWIW though our kids are 8, 5 and 10 months.  There is no Xbox in our home and there never will be and none of our kids have their own tablet, phone, TV or other electronic device.  

yeah, we started the same way and my sons saw all the other kids with that stuff and they said that was what they wanted for christmas or their birthday.  We tried fishing poles and bb guns and that stuff just sits in the corner.

So you can pound your chest and say your taking the higher road but kids see what their friends have and that's what they're going to want, but good luck.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Mr12gauge

[Swamp_Yankee]

15 minutes ago, Mr12gauge said:

yeah, we started the same way and my sons saw all the other kids with that stuff and they said that was what they wanted for christmas or their birthday.  We tried fishing poles and bb guns and that stuff just sits in the corner.  So you can pound your chest and say your taking the higher road but kids see what their friends have and that's what they're going to want, but good luck.

I'm not saying that our kids don't ask for them-every once in a while I hear about how so-and-so has a such-and-such but its fleeting.  This Christmas the big asks were an acoustic guitar and a puppy and they got both.  As for the fishing poles and the bb guns do they have a place to use them?  That was a big reason we chose where we live.  Our kids can basically do whatever they want on our land whenever they want, and they do.  You're not going to raise a kid to love the outdoors living in a subdivision of manicured lawns and swimming pools.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Swamp_Yankee

[Hawkeye57]

3 hours ago, Swamp_Yankee said:

Five pages so far and its evident that a majority of the posters didn't even click on the link much less bother to read the article.  According to the article the reasons below have ZERO to do with the decline in hunting and hunters in the United States, which, interestingly enough, peaked in 1982 when nearly 17 million hunters bought 28.3 million licenses.  The way most guys talk about the "good 'ol days" on this site you would think that "peak hunting" probably would have occurred 30-40 years earlier than that.  

And then...DING DING DING...Rusty gets it-probably because he read the article as evidenced below:

The fact of the matter is that rural populations are static and urban populations are growing.  That's not just a national trend either.  Sussex, Warren, and Hunterdon Counties are losing population while the urban and suburban counties to our south and east are gaining.  That said, I chose to live here, raise my family here, and to live a rural lifestyle.  I don't want neighbors, sidewalks, streetlights, public water and sewer, garbage pickup, recreation programs, public parks, crossing guards, regular police patrols and all of the other trappings of suburban life but the majority of New Jerseyans (and Americans) do.  How many of you live in a neat little subdivision in some suburban town?  I'd venture to say most of you.  Rural populations drive hunting and fishing license sales-they always have and always will.  

I'd venture to say that NJ experienced an "urban hunter boom" in the 1950s and 1960s-my grandfather, who was born on a farm near Columbus, NJ eventually settled in a rural part of Hamilton (just south of Trenton) and had a small farm with horses and a small truck garden, but he worked in factories all over Trenton.  In the 1950s every Tom, Dick and Harry he worked with would go down into the basement of their little Trenton rowhome, dust off a Sears-Roebuck or Montgomery Ward shotgun each fall, head down to the pines, and shoot at anything that moved for a week.  Those days are long over, and that's probably a good thing.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Literally you proved many points here boomer. 
First the original post never asked for an analysis of the article. Rather the poster posed a question with a link to a great read associated with his question. SO really you going through and dissecting other great comments and then blaming anyone that doesn’t live the way you choose is some how productive? 
 

I grew up in western Morris and never hunted. Got into hunting living in a city actually. Got into it because I had a friend introduce me to it. Then devoted significant time and money to mastering the craft. Along the way I can confidently say the worst part about hunting.... is other hunters. 
 

 

[Blizz]

I'm 38 and hopefully will go on my first turkey hunt and first hunting experience this spring in Kentucky.  It's hard to get going when everyone is so guarded and thinks if they share info it will lose them the "trophy of their lives". The public lands seem to be crowded and private land has been damn near impossible to get someone willing to let you hunt.  

And I have looked online for people that are willing to mentor hunt, let's be real, the new guy has no chance at gunning a Tom.  But people want $700 or more.  I'm doing ok, but don't have 700 to throw down to go with an experienced Hunter.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Blizz

[Fred Flintstone]

1 hour ago, Blizz said:

I'm 38 and hopefully will go on my first turkey hunt and first hunting experience this spring in Kentucky.  It's hard to get going when everyone is so guarded and thinks if they share info it will lose them the "trophy of their lives". The public lands seem to be crowded and private land has been damn near impossible to get someone willing to let you hunt.  

And I have looked online for people that are willing to mentor hunt, let's be real, the new guy has no chance at gunning a Tom.  But people want $700 or more.  I'm doing ok, but don't have 700 to throw down to go with an experienced Hunter.

 

I recently in the Turkey Forum gave some good ( parking) areas . I leave the rest up to the hunter who may want to try NY Public Land.                        You are right though about hunters ( being guarded) about information. I have so many Hotspots in NY and, I can't be everywhere.  Hunters need to open up a little more to help out New Hunters.

[tcook8296]

8 hours ago, Swamp_Yankee said:

I'm not saying that our kids don't ask for them-every once in a while I hear about how so-and-so has a such-and-such but its fleeting.  This Christmas the big asks were an acoustic guitar and a puppy and they got both.  As for the fishing poles and the bb guns do they have a place to use them?  That was a big reason we chose where we live.  Our kids can basically do whatever they want on our land whenever they want, and they do.  You're not going to raise a kid to love the outdoors living in a subdivision of manicured lawns and swimming pools.

We lived on some small lots. I remember the belt coming off a few times due to those bb guns lol

[Rusty]

5 hours ago, Blizz said:

I'm 38 and hopefully will go on my first turkey hunt and first hunting experience this spring in Kentucky.  It's hard to get going when everyone is so guarded and thinks if they share info it will lose them the "trophy of their lives". The public lands seem to be crowded and private land has been damn near impossible to get someone willing to let you hunt.  

Welcome to the site Blizz and best of luck with your upcoming hunts.    

My advice for a new hunter:

1.  There's a lot of really good public land out there if you put the time in and find the areas that aren't overcrowded.

2.  Get to know people in your area, get involved with local groups and go to local events.

3.  Don't be afraid to get out there on your own and make a bunch of mistakes, that's how you learn and it's a big part of the fun.  I didn't come from an outdoors family and I had to figure it it out on my own, I think I'm better off for it.  

[deadonshot2]

9 hours ago, Swamp_Yankee said:

I'm not saying that our kids don't ask for them-every once in a while I hear about how so-and-so has a such-and-such but its fleeting.  This Christmas the big asks were an acoustic guitar and a puppy and they got both.  As for the fishing poles and the bb guns do they have a place to use them?  That was a big reason we chose where we live.  Our kids can basically do whatever they want on our land whenever they want, and they do.  You're not going to raise a kid to love the outdoors living in a subdivision of manicured lawns and swimming pools.

See, I think your perception is wrong. I grew up on a city block in Trenton. We camped every weekend most of the year. Including winter months. I had an axe at 4 yrs old to chop firewood. I owned a bb gun. I shot it in my basement. I created a backstop and made it all safe. I had great neighbors and could sit on my back porch and shoot it. Sure I wanted some of the things my friends had. But they also wanted some of the things I had. I was the only kid in my grade school that hunted. But it was also a school with less than 200 kids from K-8. So a city kid can make it outdoors if exposed to those things. That is why I said recruiting is so important. And if we limit our pool of recruits to just the suburbs, well then we are missing people who might otherwise enjoy out outdoors life.  So by dismissing the kid in the subdivision you are limiting the amount of possible candidates into the hunting community. 

[Swamp_Yankee]

9 hours ago, Hawkeye57 said:

Literally you proved many points here boomer.  First the original post never asked for an analysis of the article. Rather the poster posed a question with a link to a great read associated with his question. SO really you going through and dissecting other great comments and then blaming anyone that doesn’t live the way you choose is some how productive?  I grew up in western Morris and never hunted. Got into hunting living in a city actually. Got into it because I had a friend introduce me to it. Then devoted significant time and money to mastering the craft. Along the way I can confidently say the worst part about hunting.... is other hunters. 

Just out of curiosity who is "boomer?"  You were responding to my post and I didn't even see anyone with the name "boomer" on the thread.  With regard to Rusty's original post, he posted the article and asked some questions directly related to the article.  After that the handwringing and bellyaching about video games and playing inside started like it does every time this topic comes up.  Despite what Lunatic may say, the numbers don't lie-rural populations are static and urban populations are growing, plain and simple.  Until that trend reverses, nothing will change.  That may sound cynical and hopeless, but I don't tend to get worked up about things I don't have the power to change.  What I did have the power to change was where I live, my way of life, and how I choose to live it, so that's what I did.  

Edited February 25, 2020 by Swamp_Yankee

[Nanuk]

Like many have said already selfish needs and lack of enthusiasm. So many other venues of entertainment and not to mention the work involved in preparing . I have 2 boys one loves to hunt the other enjoys the atmosphere. I work an average of 55-75 hours a week and sometimes weekends , money is great but I’m glad I laid the ground work when they were young . I try to introduce as many as I can to the sport when their friends are interested. We have extra clothing and boots so they don’t need to spend a dime , a few stood with it,  others found it’s just too boring. We live in a fast paced society with a constant need to be entertained. Younger  people don’t know how to entertain themselves but that’s what we created , play dates and organized sports . If they aren’t given something to do they go to default mode of the phone. 

[Greybeard]

14 hours ago, Swamp_Yankee said:

Five pages so far and its evident that a majority of the posters didn't even click on the link much less bother to read the article.  According to the article the reasons below have ZERO to do with the decline in hunting and hunters in the United States, which, interestingly enough, peaked in 1982 when nearly 17 million hunters bought 28.3 million licenses.  The way most guys talk about the "good 'ol days" on this site you would think that "peak hunting" probably would have occurred 30-40 years earlier than that.  

And then...DING DING DING...Rusty gets it-probably because he read the article as evidenced below:

The fact of the matter is that rural populations are static and urban populations are growing.  That's not just a national trend either.  Sussex, Warren, and Hunterdon Counties are losing population while the urban and suburban counties to our south and east are gaining.  That said, I chose to live here, raise my family here, and to live a rural lifestyle.  I don't want neighbors, sidewalks, streetlights, public water and sewer, garbage pickup, recreation programs, public parks, crossing guards, regular police patrols and all of the other trappings of suburban life but the majority of New Jerseyans (and Americans) do.  How many of you live in a neat little subdivision in some suburban town?  I'd venture to say most of you.  Rural populations drive hunting and fishing license sales-they always have and always will.  

I'd venture to say that NJ experienced an "urban hunter boom" in the 1950s and 1960s-my grandfather, who was born on a farm near Columbus, NJ eventually settled in a rural part of Hamilton (just south of Trenton) and had a small farm with horses and a small truck garden, but he worked in factories all over Trenton.  In the 1950s every Tom, Dick and Harry he worked with would go down into the basement of their little Trenton rowhome, dust off a Sears-Roebuck or Montgomery Ward shotgun each fall, head down to the pines, and shoot at anything that moved for a week.  Those days are long over, and that's probably a good thing.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know where you got your info that Sussex hasn't been growing.  I've lived here over 40 years, and the population has gone way up.  I'm having a hard time trying to understand the point you are trying to drive across.  I read some of the article, and it seems to lean toward the decline in the caucasian population for the decline in hunters.  It didn't exclude other factors, and it didn't show the decline of interest of just the white population.  This statement(if you click on the 'solution to the problem' link) in the article is completely backwards.  After reading that, I knew who ever wrote this doesn't know squat and is trying to hide the fact that management and politics has played a major roll in the decline.  How did you determine everything else that was mentioned so far has had zero effect, and this article is the correct answer to the problem.  Here is the quote that led me to stop reading the article,

"Hipsters want to hunt. But they don't want to hunt the way a rural farm boy from Illinois wants to hunt."

“Hipsters want to hunt. But they don’t want to hunt the way a rural farm boy from Illinois wants to hunt,” Dunfee says. “They don’t want to dress the same way, they don’t like focusing on antlers, they don’t like taking pictures of their animals. But they want local, sustainable, ecologically conscious meat. And within our efforts, there are few places to realize those values.”

That is totally backwards.  A good part of them are the generation of only big racks, trail cameras, $500 fashion jackets, sharing photos on social media.  I don't know who Dufee is, but I bet he wasn't hunting in the mid 1900's.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Greybeard

[Swamp_Yankee]

19 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

I don't know where you got your info that Sussex hasn't been growing.  I've lived here over 40 years, and the population has gone way up.  I'm having a hard time trying to understand the point you are trying to drive across.  I read some of the article, and it seems to lean toward the decline in the caucasian population for the decline in hunters.  It didn't exclude other factors, and it didn't show the decline of interest of just the white population.  This statement(if you click on the 'solution to the problem' link) in the article is completely backwards.  After reading that, I knew who ever wrote this doesn't know squat and is trying to hide the fact that management and politics has played a major roll in the decline.  How did you determine everything else that was mentioned so far has had zero effect, and this article is the correct answer to the problem.  Here is the quote that led me to stop reading the article,

"Hipsters want to hunt. But they don't want to hunt the way a rural farm boy from Illinois wants to hunt."

“Hipsters want to hunt. But they don’t want to hunt the way a rural farm boy from Illinois wants to hunt,” Dunfee says. “They don’t want to dress the same way, they don’t like focusing on antlers, they don’t like taking pictures of their animals. But they want local, sustainable, ecologically conscious meat. And within our efforts, there are few places to realize those values.”

That is totally backwards.  A good part of them are the generation of only big racks, trail cameras, $500 fashion jackets, sharing photos on social media.  I don't know who Dufee is, but I bet he wasn't hunting in the mid 1900's.

Sussex County's population peaked in 2007 and has been declining ever since:

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=county:34037&hl=en&dl=en

Hunterdon (my home county) peaked in 2009 and then began the downward trend:

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=county:34019&hl=en&dl=en

Warren peaked in 2008:

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=county:34041&hl=en&dl=en

Most of that had to do with the Great Recession/Housing Crisis which began in 2008.  In the 30-40 years prior to that, as you pointed out, people in NJ had been fleeing the cities and the suburbs for the more rural areas, commuting further and further, until the bottom dropped out.  Now take a look at this dataset which shows Essex, Union and Somerset Counties.  At this point Essex has recovered nearly all of its population loss since 1980 and all three counties have been on a fairly consistent upward trend since 2000:

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=county:34039:34035:34013&hl=en&dl=en

This trend is even more dramatic when you look at the rural Midwest, the South, etc...  As far as the whole "Hipster hunting" thing, you're looking at the wrong crowd.  Hipsters aren't the guys looking for big racks wearing $500 fashion jackets and sharing photos of "slobs" taking "dirt naps" on social media.  Hipsters are these guys:

The article talks about how they like "local food" and "organic, cage free" blah blah blah...so some of them have taken to hunting.  Whatever, good for them I guess.

[toxo]

Are we a dying breed?  Yes!

[Rusty]

12 minutes ago, Swamp_Yankee said:

The article talks about how hipsters like "local food" and "organic, cage free" blah blah blah...so some of them have taken to hunting.  Whatever, good for them I guess.

These initiatives are making an attempt to recruit new groups of hunters so I give them props for that.  From the hipster's perspective hunting can be very appealing if it's presented properly.

1. Deer overpopulation is a serious environmental issue.  Controlling them is helping the environment. 

2.  Venison is an organic, lean, healthy, free range source of protein.  

3. Gathering your own food outdoors is trendy and cool.