The Carnivore Diet

[Lunatic]

1 hour ago, hammer4reel said:

No way you can watch that show and not see documentation  on real studies.

Heart disease is biggest killer in our country.

How come people on plant based diets don't have as many cardiac issues? 

Why is all the meat we eat all plant eaters. 

If you were in the wild how much meat do you think you would run down ? 

It's hard to look at plant based diets after we have eatin  meat for all these years .

I think a combination of foods is best for our systems. 

IMO a total meat diet will break down to cardiac issues 

 

Obesity related to sugar and simple carbs addiction is responsible for heart disease in US. Meat and eggs are not it. Our government is responsible for pushing on us the "low fat diet" which systematically killed millions.
However I agree with you that reasonable diversity of what we eat is the way to stay healthy. I don't believe eating one type of food only could ever give you what you body needs to stay healthy. I don't think you get sick from eating only "healthy" meat but I think you will eventually have side effects or get sick  from not eating what you need.

[not on the rug]

There is nothing in plant life that isn't found in animal flesh.  In fact, the nutrients in animal flesh are far more bioavailable than the ones in plants.  Just a fyi.

Also, this is just an experiment.  Biohacking.  I went thorough all of that a few times already.   

I'll let Dr. Baker explain.  

 

 

 

[buckhound]

1 hour ago, TouchofGrey said:

Dude.... You have 1 lap at life if there is something to extend a healthy life, go for it. I don't have the discipline for 24 hours let alone a month. You seem ready to do it . Good luck and hope you get your results.

all the leading research has shown intermitent fasting actually does  extend life by possibly years. 

[buckhound]

I know its hard and seems impossible most of us have tried every diet available and we all know they don't work if they did nutrisystem  and weight watchers would have been out of business years ago. keto and carnivore are a lifestyle change once you break the sugar and carb addiction its a whole new game and easier than you can imagine. I honestly don't think about bread pasta or any other sugar or carb foods in fact I don't really think about food all that much food just does not control my life like in the past. before I went out today I prepped some wild caught salmon scallops and shrimp with butter and seasonings put it in the fridge for the wife to throw in the oven when she got home.

Edited January 30, 2020 by buckhound

[not on the rug]

16 minutes ago, buckhound said:

I know its hard and seems impossible most of us have tried every diet available and we all know they don't work if they did nutrisystem  and weight watchers would have been out of business years ago. keto and carnivore are a lifestyle change once you break the sugar and carb addiction its a whole new game and easier than you can imagine. I honestly don't think about bread pasta or any other sugar or carb foods in fact I don't really think about food all that much food just does not control my life like in the past. before I went out today I prepped some wild caught salmon scallops and shrimp with butter and seasonings put it in the fridge for the wife to throw in the oven when she got home.

I first got in to this stuff about 11 years ago and I haven't looked back.  I was always a great athlete and in great shape, but never paid any mind to nutrition.   I dove in to this stuff headfirst and have been teaching what I know to as many folks who will listen.  

[Lunatic]

7 minutes ago, buckhound said:

I know its hard and seems impossible most of us have tried every diet available and we all know they don't work if they did nutrisystem  and weight watchers would have been out of business years ago. keto and carnivore are a lifestyle change once you break the sugar and carb addiction its a whole new game and easier than you can imagine. I honestly don't think about bread pasta or any other sugar or carb foods in fact I don't really think about food all that much food just does not control my life like in the past. before I went out today I prepped some wild caught salmon scallops and shrimp with butter and seasonings put it in the fridge for the wife to throw in the oven when she got home.

I feel like I wrote the above. The only difference it did not start for me with keto or carnivore. It started for me in the mid 80 with Atkins who was ahead of all of this. I lost 35lb in one month on Atkins way of life and I never looked back. I’m not on any diet, it changed my way of life forever, I don’t feel like I’m doing anything special or depriving myself of anything, and like you eating is Not all that important. Does it work for me? At 57 I play hockey with 20 year old kids and very few can keep up with me. Sugar and simple carbs will not only kill you but will make your life miserable while you are still alive. 

[newjerseyhunter]

11 hours ago, Lunatic said:

And contrary to most people believes low carb diet = no loss and in fact gain in energy level.

Are you referring to typical every day energy? Yes, you may gain but when it comes to hard core workouts, totally different ball game. I don't know anyone who has tried low carb who hasn't suffered in the gym, etc. 

11 hours ago, not on the rug said:

Ok...so a normal day of eating currently looks like this for me:

Wake up at 5:30.  From then until about noon, it's just black coffee and water.  

Around noon I usually eat a small snack (roughly 400 calories). A couple of Epic Venison bars, Bison bars, some jerky, a few hard boiled eggs, Tuna,  Sardines, etc.  

No more food until around 5-5:30pm when I have dinner.  Meat/Seafood, lots of veggies, occasionally some rice.  Followed by a little fruit maybe, some nuts, some dark chocolate (90-100% pure cacao).  

Typically no more food after 6pm.  

When I go full carnivore, I'll still follow the eating pattern as above, just eliminate anything that isn't meat and adjust calories accordingly.  So, probably still eat that snack around noon (Venison bars/jerky/eggs/tuna/sardines, etc) and dinner at 5:30, but just more meat, more eggs and nothing else.  Dinner will be a large portion of meat or seafood, and maybe some eggs.  

Are you counting the calories of dinner (towards a specific daily BMR) or just  winging it?

9 hours ago, not on the rug said:

No proof at all. 

People can be an exception to a rule...that isn't proof. 

Improving health markers on any diet is a bit of a farce too.  Most people eat poorly.  Then they pick a diet... Vegan, Vegetarian, Paleo, Mediterranean, etc and lo and behold they show improved health markers.  Of course they did...they stopped eating garbage.  They probably started exercising in conjunction with those dietary changes.  It's a win-win situation

I can steer you in whatever direction you'd like, but pretty much every claim that guy makes in that movie is patently false.  His claims are not objective and he doesn't actually use any sort of science or peer reviewed studies to make his claims.  

Eating vegetables may or may not be good for you. I've seen some pretty compelling arguments that the inflammatory compounds in plants, like lectins and phytates, do more harm to our bodies than the good that some of the other compounds might do.  

Eating real meat is definitely not bad for you though. 

Let's just make things clear too... "meat eaters" in this type of science fiction are all lumped together.  so they make no distinction between folks who eat grassfed beef, wild caught seafood, hunted game meats, etc and the slobs who eat McDonalds every day: factory farmed meat, slathered in fake cheese loaded with hydrogenated and/or rancid industrial seed oils, and slapped between 2 buns made from highly inflammatory and nutrient devoid grains like wheat (with soy added to it).  Not to mention the fact that people who are commonly thought of as "meat eaters" are probably washing that filth down with a side of GMO fries, fried in industrial seed oil and a great big cup of soda with or without artificial sweeteners.  What I eat as a meateater is not the same as what these folks think meateaters eat.  

I implore you to watch and read some of Chris Kresser to start with.  He will lay things straight for you.  Then dive in to Dr. Peter Attia's work.   

I believe Chris Kresser did a JRE with James Wilks (guy behind Game Changers) and IIRC Joe Rogan stated that as hard as it was to admit Wilks shut Kresser down. I didn't watch it myself so I don't know, I'm going to watch both the doc and the JRE in the near future. Generally, I am under the impression that most of these types of documentaries have an agenda and are skewed but if someone is eating meat from the grocery store they are doing their body a disservice in more ways than one. 

What you said about the effects of dietary cholesterol isn't 100% correct. For many people, dietary cholesterol will not raise their blood cholesterol but for others it does. What they are now finding is that it isn't just the type of cholesterol that matters but the size, density, number of certain lipids, etc. If you have cholesterol issues you should get an advanced panel like a VAP or NMR.

Not sure if it was you or someone else that brought up sugar... I think sugar is probably the most dangerous thing we put in our bodies. If for no other reason than we now put so much of it in our bodies (talking about avg American). It is in nearly 75% items found in the average grocery store. It causes inflammation which I think makes it much easier for plaque to build up in your arteries. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by newjerseyhunter

[not on the rug]

23 minutes ago, newjerseyhunter said:

Are you referring to typical every day energy? Yes, you may gain but when it comes to hard core workouts, totally different ball game. I don't know anyone who has tried low carb who hasn't suffered in the gym, etc. 

Are you counting the calories of dinner (towards a specific daily BMR) or just  winging it?

I believe Chris Kresser did a JRE with James Wilks (guy behind Game Changers) and IIRC Joe Rogan stated that as hard as it was to admit Wilks shut Kresser down. I didn't watch it myself so I don't know, I'm going to watch both the doc and the JRE in the near future. Generally, I am under the impression that most of these types of documentaries have an agenda and are skewed but if someone is eating meat from the grocery store they are doing their body a disservice in more ways than one. 

What you said about the effects of dietary cholesterol isn't 100% correct. For many people, dietary cholesterol will not raise their blood cholesterol but for others it does. What they are now finding is that it isn't just the type of cholesterol that matters but the size, density, number of certain lipids, etc. If you have cholesterol issues you should get an advanced panel like a VAP or NMR.

Not sure if it was you or someone else that brought up sugar... I think sugar is probably the most dangerous thing we put in our bodies. If for no other reason than we now put so much of it in our bodies (talking about avg American). It is in nearly 75% items found in the average grocery store. It causes inflammation which I think makes it much easier for plaque to build up in your arteries. 

I don't ever count calories or macros anymore.  It's been ages since I did.

So for a very small percentage of folks, dietary cholesterol may have a moderate effect on total cholesterol.  However, total cholesterol has zero correlation with heart disease, so it's basically irrelevant.  

You're corect about particle type and size.  VAP tests or arterial scans can paint a more accurate picture.  Excess carbs and sugar drive triglycerides up.  That has bothing to do with fat intake at all.  The big picture is systemmic inflammation.   Cholesterol doesn't clog our arteries like we were always told.  It repairs and patches up arterial damage caused by inflammation.  That's what it is supposed to do.  Cholesterol is crucial to every cell in our body, if it wasn't our body wouldn't produce.   

We need to teach people to not inflame  their thei systems by smoking, eating excess carbs and sugar, eating grains and eating industrial seed oils or hydrogenated oils.  

All of this is why I tell folks to read Dr. Peter Attia's work on cholesterol.   It's long, but worth the read.  Most folks have no idea how any of that works at all.

I haven't seen the kresser/Wilks podcast, but I heard that Wilks was an obnoxious cunt that never let Chris get a word in edgewise.   I guess that could be misconstrued as shutting him down.  I'll have to listen for myself 

Edited January 31, 2020 by not on the rug

[Nomad]

Rug, do you take any multi vitamins or vitamin c?

[Lunatic]

1 hour ago, newjerseyhunter said:

Are you referring to typical every day energy? Yes, you may gain but when it comes to hard core workouts, totally different ball game. I don't know anyone who has tried low carb who hasn't suffered in the gym, etc. 

Are you counting the calories of dinner (towards a specific daily BMR) or just  winging it?

I believe Chris Kresser did a JRE with James Wilks (guy behind Game Changers) and IIRC Joe Rogan stated that as hard as it was to admit Wilks shut Kresser down. I didn't watch it myself so I don't know, I'm going to watch both the doc and the JRE in the near future. Generally, I am under the impression that most of these types of documentaries have an agenda and are skewed but if someone is eating meat from the grocery store they are doing their body a disservice in more ways than one. 

What you said about the effects of dietary cholesterol isn't 100% correct. For many people, dietary cholesterol will not raise their blood cholesterol but for others it does. What they are now finding is that it isn't just the type of cholesterol that matters but the size, density, number of certain lipids, etc. If you have cholesterol issues you should get an advanced panel like a VAP or NMR.

Not sure if it was you or someone else that brought up sugar... I think sugar is probably the most dangerous thing we put in our bodies. If for no other reason than we now put so much of it in our bodies (talking about avg American). It is in nearly 75% items found in the average grocery store. It causes inflammation which I think makes

I’m 57 years old and I play hockey 2 to 3 times each and every week, and this is only one of many activities I engage regularly. Step on the ice for 2.5 hrs and let me know if this is  can be done with “typical every day energy”

Carbs you eat are gone 15 minutes into your workout. You need them NOT! 

Edited January 31, 2020 by Lunatic

[not on the rug]

8 hours ago, Nomad said:

Rug, do you take any multi vitamins or vitamin c?

Hey.  I posted this earlier:

On an ordinary day, I take 400o-5000 IU of D3, 250-500mg of chelated magnesium, and a B Complex containing Methylcobalamin  (rather than Cyanocobalamin. 2-3 times a week I take a very high quality Multi-Vitamin.  I may suspend these supplements for the first month of the experiment just to see what happens.  

The vitamin C issue is two-fold.  1-there is enough vitamin c in fresh meat, liver and seafood and 2-when not eating carbohydrates,  the body's need for vitamin c downregulates, so way less is needed.  The reason sailors got scurvy was because they were eating dried meat and the drying process destroys the vitamin c. Also, in keto and on a carnivore diet, the body upregulates production of antioxidants, and in particular glutothione, which is now known as the master antioxidant.   

 

[Hunter115522]

This is interesting. I'm curious what the outcome will be. Are you going to get blood work before, and after just to see what's changed?

[not on the rug]

5 minutes ago, Hunter115522 said:

This is interesting. I'm curious what the outcome will be. Are you going to get blood work before, and after just to see what's changed?

I had blood work done a few months ago at my annual physical.  It was good, but not as historically good as it's always been due to falling off the health wagon a bit in the past several months.  Since then, I've gone back to my normal paleo/ancestral diet, gone back in to IF with 18 hour fasts, and basically been back to normal.  I may get some blood work done in a few months or just wait until my next physical in the summer. 

I'm probably just going to carry on this experiment for a few months and just gauge by how I'm feeling and performing and then go from there.  Then maybe treat it like some sort of elimination diet and add fruits and veggies and my other usual foods back in one by one to see how I feel and react to them.  

[dlist777]

I did it.  I encourage you to try.  It seems to work for some.  For me..not.  Every sh&t was an emergency and my blood tests went crazy.  But, I've definitely heard of this working for some.  I think a lot of people benefit from these diets because they are moving from the standard american diet.  So, they are getting the benefit of not eating tons of sugar and tons of processed carbs.  So, they report a big benefit but it's hard to know if it's the specific diet or just cutting out all that crap . 

It seems like you eat very healthy already, so it will be interesting to see how it affects you.  It's a good control experiment.  

[not on the rug]

2 minutes ago, dlist777 said:

I did it.  I encourage you to try.  It seems to work for some.  For me..not.  Every sh&t was an emergency and my blood tests went crazy.  But, I've definitely heard of this working for some.  I think a lot of people benefit from these diets because they are moving from the standard american diet.  So, they are getting the benefit of not eating tons of sugar and tons of processed carbs.  So, they report a big benefit but it's hard to know if it's the specific diet or just cutting out all that crap . 

It seems like you eat very healthy already, so it will be interesting to see how it affects you.  It's a good control experiment.  

Thanks.  That's what it's all about. Just an experiment.  I agree that most "diets" are a wonderful change from the Standard American Diet.

A few questions for you:

How long did you do it for? 

What kind of numbers were you seeing in the bloodwork? 

What were you eating? 

What exercise were you doing?