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ltnic

LandTrust Updates (cheaper hunts!)

Booking Factors  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. What's the most important factor you consider when booking a hunt?

    • Price
      14
    • Being able to hunt with friends
      1
    • Distance of the property from my house
      5


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10 hours ago, bucky said:

Nice logic, but not buying it, in our area the farmers are aging and the next generation wants nothing to do with farming because there is no money in it, once they pass on the farms are sold for preservation or development, so there are no saviors in the end. In 20 years people in NJ wont even know what a bean or cornfield looks like:-(

 

So what above makes you think that will be less disruptive than knocking on a door and getting to know someone that's willing to give you a hand when needed? The farmers I know don't text, enjoy talking on the phone or like people on their property they don't know which it will be in your case...I think your statement below is a bunch of bull also...lmao

You just built a case for more of a need for an application like this. 

You sound upset you didn’t think of it first. 

OP, good luck in your endeavor.

Edited by Nadornati
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12 hours ago, MZ7Extreme said:

How exactly does this help the average hunter? I see you and your organization benefiting, but how exactly is this opening this up to other hunters and actually benefiting hunting and hunters?

I am all for making a profit but they way you're talking is if you are doing someone like me a favor. If I go to knock on a door and the owner is a land trust signee and I get him to allow me to hunt the property how does that work?

I mean you shouldn't be inhibiting me from hunting this property because you know you're trying to help out hunters and hunting right?

Thanks for the comment. Yes, we're building a for-profit business, no secrets there. By opening up private lands to be booked for hunting trips rather than keeping them in expensive, upfront annual leases, we're enabling more hunters (who are willing to pay) to hunt private lands that they'd have not been able to before because of those large annual lease costs. 

I don't believe I'm doing anyone a favor, that was not my intent to come off that way. I'm working to create an efficient marketplace where willing buyer (hunter) & willing seller (landowner) can connect and exchange value in a simple, safe, secure manner. As with any free market enterprise, it's completely up to you to choose whether you participate or not. Just like you may have chosen to do a traditional annul leases or not.

If you were to knock on a LandTrust landowner door and they wanted to let you hunt for free, they could simply block the calendar off for the dates they were going to let you hunt. It's their land, they do whatever they want with it. They are not under any contract with LandTrust.

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3 minutes ago, Nadornati said:

You just built a case for more of a need for an application like this. 

You sound upset you didn’t think of it first. 

OP, good luck with your endeavor.

Lmao you sound like you are best buds with the OP...

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As always, we want your feedback (good/bad/ugly) so we can make the product & experience better for you. Comment in the thread or feel free to text us at 406.300.5755 with any questions/comments/feedback and sign up for LandTrust today if you haven't already!

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You just built a case for more of a need for an application like this. 

You sound upset you didn’t think of it first. 

OP, good luck in your endeavor.

Just giving him what he ask for...FEEDBACK:up: 

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I for one like it. I really do not have time or energy to split firewood or help out around the property. For me i would rather pay a few hundred bucks and have the land owner hire someone or use the money to buy firewood. I guess its different for everyone but I like the idea. It opens it up to people who would rather pay than work it off. 

I always had the same deal at gun clubs. I never got the discount for work days . I am ok with paying a small fee for my time to be free. 

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Pay per day to hunt land that I was never able to scout beforehand, no thanks because some land takes weeks, months, years to learn and pattern the deer to be successful specially when it comes to mature bucks. Pay per day to hunt land that I don’t know who, when or what the other mo mo’s did on that land before me, no thanks it takes one mistake wether hunting wrong wind, going in at the wrong time and many other factors that can ruin a spot for the season.

We have public land for free to deal with all that! But there’s plenty of dopes with money to spend so I’m sure you’ll do ok. 

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5 minutes ago, Hitemnasty said:

Pay per day to hunt land that I was never able to scout beforehand, no thanks because some land takes weeks, months, years to learn and pattern the deer to be successful specially when it comes to mature bucks. Pay per day to hunt land that I don’t know who, when or what the other mo mo’s did on that land before me, no thanks it takes one mistake wether hunting wrong wind, going in at the wrong time and many other factors that can ruin a spot for the season.

We have public land for free to deal with all that! But there’s plenty of dopes with money to spend so I’m sure you’ll do ok. 

That's good feedback. Although some properties allow you to book as little as 1 day, you can also book much longer periods. 

It sounds like you're more interested in trophy spots, which LandTrust also has. It's all about how the Landowner wants to manage their land and what types of hunts sportsmen want. You can check out a couple trophy listings here: 

We'll eventually have listings that serve everyone from the guy chasing the buck of his dreams to someone just wanting to get outside this weekend with their kid. Not everyone has the same goals for hunting.

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From my perspective of hunting private (and heavily trespassed) property, as well as public land here in NJ...there is a lot of value in having a place to just go hunt without headaches.  One of the nicest things about a club I used to belong to was the fact that you could just show up and hunt.  Everyone had their own area, no one messed with anyone's stuff, nothing ever got damaged or stolen, and no trespassing issues ever.

Many hunters simply want to hunt...not stress over arguing with trespassers, theft, damage to stands, some jackwagon setting up 50 yards from you, etc.  Factor in a lack of available time in this sector of the Northeast where it's a total working rat race to pay bills and find a sliver of free time to enjoy...a service like this offers a relatively inexpensive way to hunt with minimal headaches (perhaps none with active landowners properly overseeing their land).

Granted, I see the concerns of the "old ways" of getting permission to hunt properties, but in this tax heavy state, the only thing that helps pay the bills is money, not handshakes.  That is why leases are so expensive, because they are limited and in demand here.

With that said, Nic's company's service isn't your own property (although maybe it can be arranged for season long bookings).  You won't be able to scout it out year round, cam it, bait it, narrow down on target bucks, etc.  Maybe he allows things like that while you are hunting but not ahead of time (as it may interfere with another hunter).  Nic's company's service is more of a DIY hunt (if I'm understanding it correctly)...you show up when you have time booked and hunt.  This is the same approach out of state outfitters take on DIY hunts.  The strong benefit here is that it's local...no hotels, no long drives, you can hunt close to home.  Or you can go out of state and do the same thing.

Make no mistake about it, it could impact existing hunters who have had a friendly agreement with landowners, trading work for access, etc.  But even without Nic's company, those types of agreements are fading over time. Looking at the landowners perspective, it comes down to their livelihood and ability to afford the property.  Some of my friends had free access to land for many years, only to have the landowner eventually decide to sell it (either due to lack of affordability [usually rising taxes] or simple appeal of the sale value), at which point a white collar city worker looking for better schools and environment for their kids opts to commute to the city instead and buys the property.  Hunting?  "We don't like hunting".  Now no one hunts that piece (legally)...possibly ever again.  Or a developer buys it and it's all gone to homes or a shopping center.

So the bright side to Nic's company is that it helps offer some secondary income to these landowners while also offering access to hunters.  That's a huge win/win/win overall.  And for those who don't have the time or money to do season long leases, this gives you the ability to get out and hunt for a day or a week when you have time to do so.

Just my .02

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3 hours ago, ltnic said:

That's good feedback. Although some properties allow you to book as little as 1 day, you can also book much longer periods. 

It sounds like you're more interested in trophy spots, which LandTrust also has. It's all about how the Landowner wants to manage their land and what types of hunts sportsmen want. You can check out a couple trophy listings here: 

We'll eventually have listings that serve everyone from the guy chasing the buck of his dreams to someone just wanting to get outside this weekend with their kid. Not everyone has the same goals for hunting.

I understand not everyone has the same goals but when it comes to paying hard earned money I would bet most people willing to pay want the above average chance at a good to great buck. Without previous access chances at getting anything even a fawn aren’t great. Customers are supposed to walk into the woods in the dark,  blind not even knowing if there’s a tree for a climber?  Smaller bucks and does are readily available on  the public lands we have access to for free

Lands that we already have an opportunity to narrow down the better spots. Public lands, from what my experiences are from the last twenty years hunting them is that it’s not the headache everyone portrays. I actually get more frustrated on the smaller private pieces I have access to. 

Imo for this to truly work out (in the long term) you need to have properties setup by professionals to be hunted by customers. Where prescouting has been done and trails, stands and blinds setup, like going to a outfitter. Maybe it’s a option customers pay a little more for that service. If not that, a customers one day hunt should be a two day lease, one to scout and setup and one to hunt. But then that brings on one of my first concerns about not knowing who did what, where and when. 

To add... majority of hunters in today’s world rely on bait and others are lazy (meaning they don’t want to walk far or setup/takedown stands the day they hunt) so you’re really narrowing down the customer base by not having bait sites and stands setup. 

Edited by Hitemnasty
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@Hitemnasty does have some good points.  Most who are crunched for time do want the convenience of hunting not scouting/setting up/etc.  It would increase appeal to have spots already set up, and would likely minimize the impact of hunters day to day/week to week, while increasing the odds of success (which helps with repeat business).  But that takes a lot more personalized work on these properties, one that landowners nor Nic's company may not be willing to invest or simply may not have the time to.

So it does feel like there is a gap somewhere, especially on one day hunts.  For any DIY approach, you generally need a few days to figure things out.  So the "one day hunt" is probably the most challenging to figure out from a hunter perspective without any guidance, stand location recommendations, etc.  Most hunters are not accustomed to walking into a property they've never set foot on, in the morning darkness, navigating to a "good" stand location and setting up.

Nic, maybe walk us through a "one day" booked hunt?

  1. Hunter A schedules to hunt on 11/01/19
  2. Hunter A knows where the property is so they can pre-scout with aerial and topo maps (good to add to your site BTW).  Most seasoned hunters will probably do this, but others may not have time or experience and therefore may have no idea what they are running into property wise (elevations, thickness, etc).
  3. On the morning of 11/01/19, Hunter A drives to the property. 
    • It's dark, how do they know where to park to start their day?
  4. Once parked, they get their stuff together but don't have a good idea of exactly where to go or what they'll run into.
    • How do they know where to go in the dark?
    • Are there any starting points, flagged or tacked out trails to lead them to certain areas?
    • How do they know where the property lines are?
    • Is the expectation that on a one day hunt they wait until daybreak?
  5. Once on the property and hunting, if they have any issues (trespasser, property  line questions, etc), who do they contact?

 

Just a few questions that came to mind in this scenario.  To @Hitemnasty's point, having things "pre figured out" helps expedite the hunting setup process, and as I mentioned above, minimizes hunter impact and increased potential success.

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1 hour ago, BowhunterNJ said:

From my perspective of hunting private (and heavily trespassed) property, as well as public land here in NJ...there is a lot of value in having a place to just go hunt without headaches.  One of the nicest things about a club I used to belong to was the fact that you could just show up and hunt.  Everyone had their own area, no one messed with anyone's stuff, nothing ever got damaged or stolen, and no trespassing issues ever.

Many hunters simply want to hunt...not stress over arguing with trespassers, theft, damage to stands, some jackwagon setting up 50 yards from you, etc.  Factor in a lack of available time in this sector of the Northeast where it's a total working rat race to pay bills and find a sliver of free time to enjoy...a service like this offers a relatively inexpensive way to hunt with minimal headaches (perhaps none with active landowners properly overseeing their land).

Granted, I see the concerns of the "old ways" of getting permission to hunt properties, but in this tax heavy state, the only thing that helps pay the bills is money, not handshakes.  That is why leases are so expensive, because they are limited and in demand here.

With that said, Nic's company's service isn't your own property (although maybe it can be arranged for season long bookings).  You won't be able to scout it out year round, cam it, bait it, narrow down on target bucks, etc.  Maybe he allows things like that while you are hunting but not ahead of time (as it may interfere with another hunter).  Nic's company's service is more of a DIY hunt (if I'm understanding it correctly)...you show up when you have time booked and hunt.  This is the same approach out of state outfitters take on DIY hunts.  The strong benefit here is that it's local...no hotels, no long drives, you can hunt close to home.  Or you can go out of state and do the same thing.

Make no mistake about it, it could impact existing hunters who have had a friendly agreement with landowners, trading work for access, etc.  But even without Nic's company, those types of agreements are fading over time. Looking at the landowners perspective, it comes down to their livelihood and ability to afford the property.  Some of my friends had free access to land for many years, only to have the landowner eventually decide to sell it (either due to lack of affordability [usually rising taxes] or simple appeal of the sale value), at which point a white collar city worker looking for better schools and environment for their kids opts to commute to the city instead and buys the property.  Hunting?  "We don't like hunting".  Now no one hunts that piece (legally)...possibly ever again.  Or a developer buys it and it's all gone to homes or a shopping center.

So the bright side to Nic's company is that it helps offer some secondary income to these landowners while also offering access to hunters.  That's a huge win/win/win overall.  And for those who don't have the time or money to do season long leases, this gives you the ability to get out and hunt for a day or a week when you have time to do so.

Just my .02

Much appreciated for the thoughtful comment, you definitely summed up what we're trying to go for with LandTrust.

Also, we do have outfitters and professional hunter/land managers that are listing with us as well who only allow a certain number of hunts per year/have stands/have feeders and offer lodging/guiding too.

To us, LandTrust represents private land access for hunting & fishing trips. That could be a day hunt for pheasant in Kansas, a weeklong DIY elk hunt in Colorado with a cabin, or a fully guided Kentucky trophy whitetail hunt on a professionally managed farm. All of those things represent private land access for hunters and they will all have different price points and expectations associated with them.

We will also be getting into longer term bookings as well so hunters could book a property for the whole rifle/bow season, etc.

Anyway, that's our goal and we're working hard to achieve it but like everyone else, we may miss the mark sometimes. When we do we hope to hear from our customers so we can address it immediately. That's why I'm in this awesome forum engaging with folks, even some who aren't so positive with us because it's important to hear all sides of it so we can be successful with our endeavor.

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36 minutes ago, BowhunterNJ said:

@Hitemnasty does have some good points.  Most who are crunched for time do want the convenience of hunting not scouting/setting up/etc.  It would increase appeal to have spots already set up, and would likely minimize the impact of hunters day to day/week to week, while increasing the odds of success (which helps with repeat business).  But that takes a lot more personalized work on these properties, one that landowners nor Nic's company may not be willing to invest or simply may not have the time to.

So it does feel like there is a gap somewhere, especially on one day hunts.  For any DIY approach, you generally need a few days to figure things out.  So the "one day hunt" is probably the most challenging to figure out from a hunter perspective without any guidance, stand location recommendations, etc.  Most hunters are not accustomed to walking into a property they've never set foot on, in the morning darkness, navigating to a "good" stand location and setting up.

Nic, maybe walk us through a "one day" booked hunt?

  1. Hunter A schedules to hunt on 11/01/19
  2. Hunter A knows where the property is so they can pre-scout with aerial and topo maps (good to add to your site BTW).  Most seasoned hunters will probably do this, but others may not have time or experience and therefore may have no idea what they are running into property wise (elevations, thickness, etc).
  3. On the morning of 11/01/19, Hunter A drives to the property. 
    • It's dark, how do they know where to park to start their day?
  4. Once parked, they get their stuff together but don't have a good idea of exactly where to go or what they'll run into.
    • How do they know where to go in the dark?
    • Are there any starting points, flagged or tacked out trails to lead them to certain areas?
    • How do they know where the property lines are?
    • Is the expectation that on a one day hunt they wait until daybreak?
  5. Once on the property and hunting, if they have any issues (trespasser, property  line questions, etc), who do they contact?

 

Just a few questions that came to mind in this scenario.  To @Hitemnasty's point, having things "pre figured out" helps expedite the hunting setup process, and as I mentioned above, minimizes hunter impact and increased potential success.

Quick note: day hunts are not necessarily the goal for LandTrust and of the bookings that have happened already most are at least a couple days or longer. The points brought up are valid for hunting whitetail in the east so booking a few days to get the spot figured out would be more ideal than a 1 day hunt. Whereas if you're hunting birds, spot & stalk western hunts for antelope/whitetails/elk/etc. day hunts can & do work just fine. Obviously more days are better to get a spot figured out but we wanted to give the Landowner the most flexibility when listing their land. As I mentioned in my last reply to @BowhunterNJ we do have lots of properties coming onboard that already have stands/feeders/food plots/etc. 

Definitely great points to address guys. See some thoughts below. Also a good point to note, when you make a booking through LandTrust you get to message with the Landowners and for the bookings we've had happen already a lot of the landowners will give you a call and give you the lay of the land before you come out.

  1. Hunter A schedules to hunt on 11/01/19
  2. Hunter A knows where the property is so they can pre-scout with aerial and topo maps (good to add to your site BTW).  Most seasoned hunters will probably do this, but others may not have time or experience and therefore may have no idea what they are running into property wise (elevations, thickness, etc). 
    • When a hunter books a property, we send them the area & waypoints via onXmaps which also has topos and clearly shows property boundaries. We've also partnered with onXmaps to give our LandTrust users a 20% discount off their premium services like offline maps which turn your phone into a GPS device even without cell service. Also, hunter can message back/forth with landowner with any questions.
  3. On the morning of 11/01/19, Hunter A drives to the property. 
    • It's dark, how do they know where to park to start their day?
      • As part of the point above, we'll have sent them waypoints of places they can park on the property.  
  4. Once parked, they get their stuff together but don't have a good idea of exactly where to go or what they'll run into.
    • How do they know where to go in the dark? 
      • We can solve for this with trails we mark out in onXmaps, talking to landowners can also help here.
    • Are there any starting points, flagged or tacked out trails to lead them to certain areas?
      • Waypoints via onXmaps
    • How do they know where the property lines are?
      • onXmaps area that we send over which you can see on your phone
    • Is the expectation that on a one day hunt they wait until daybreak?
      • Each landowner can have their own check-in rules and in some cases they may let you come the evening before to see the property and get the lay of the land
  5. Once on the property and hunting, if they have any issues (trespasser, property  line questions, etc), who do they contact?
    • They can contact us if there's suspected trespassing and we'll handle it with the landowner and local authorities. Property line questions should be answered via onXmaps.
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May be a great option for some. I'm fortunate to have options maybe others arent. If it isnt for you so be it. They simply offer u the connection with the landowner. The market will determine it's own price in the end. If it gets more people out doing what we all love it cant be a bad thing. If I had no where to hunt I'd happily pay to take my kids out for a day.

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I would be interested in this for hunting ducks and geese. So many farms in the northern part of NJ here, all already have gun clubs and won't allow someone like me to hunt geese from their ponds or cut corn fields.

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2 hours ago, Coyoteslayer said:

May be a great option for some. I'm fortunate to have options maybe others arent. If it isnt for you so be it. They simply offer u the connection with the landowner. The market will determine it's own price in the end. If it gets more people out doing what we all love it cant be a bad thing. If I had no where to hunt I'd happily pay to take my kids out for a day.

Appreciate the encouragement. You're spot on with what we're trying to do, get more people outside and hunting.

You're also right on pricing, the honest truth is we don't know what the right pricing is yet and will only find our way there after lots of bookings. The market will decide and every property will be different with all sorts of factors involved.

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