Safety Harness

[mazzgolf]

UPDATE: never mind - I see the item you posted comes with *4* caribiners.

Edited October 9, 2019 by mazzgolf

[hammer4reel]

10 hours ago, Nomad said:

From the time I could walk I was roaming the neighborhoods and woods looking for climbing trees.  We would climb to the top of the tallest 100 foot spruce trees and dangle on the tiny, thin branches at the tip top of the tree.  We would laugh and yell, hang by our knees upsidedown.  My Dad thought it was great and took photos. Oddly my Mom was not alarmed either.

  When I started bow hunting I used to look for good trees to climb and a nice branch that I could sit on and at a decent height where I could shoot my longbow.  Killed lots of deer like that.  Then came the Baker Stands, now they were dangerous!

 Nothing wrong with being adventurous and living life on the edge either!  Maybe doing it the hard way.  Sitting on a branch and killing a deer because no one else does that!  

Sorry for the rant!

All of us older guys did the same.

At 17 I was a climber for Bartlett, moved around a tree like a squirrel and still do at almost 58.

didnt make enough money when I went into the electricians union so continued also doing tree work till I became a JW.

only wearing a harness now because Tracey asked me to.

def still have no thought of falling, and can still hang a set of sticks and a stand in well less then 5 minutes. Probably closer to 3 if I hand all four sticks and have a line tied to pull the stand.

when I was younger and so used to being much higher in the tree I had no reference and would find I was hunting way  higher than needed,

‘thirty feet looked like 5.

used to carry my bowstring and go up until,it just came off the ground so knew I was only 18/20 foot up.

anderson tree sling an a set of pole gaffs is all I used for many years.

made homemade crotch stands because I couldn’t afford the commercial,made ones.

 

Old and fat doesn’t mean you can’t be agile. As I def am all of those combined .

 

[Nomad]

50 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

moved around a tree like a squirrel and still do at almost 58.

 

I used to be a squirrel now I am more like a raccoon.  A lot more careful and not as quick. 

[not on the rug]

I was off today so I took a drive down to EMS. I picked up a Black Diamond Momentum harness and 10ft of 7/16 static rope, good for 29kn.

I tied directly in to the harness, via a standard double figure 8 knot and then finished with a stop knot (fisherman's knot).

At the other end, I double figure 8 knotted to a carabiner, which will clip to my tree strap.  I left myself 4ft from knot to knot.  I think I'm good to go.   Can't wait to try it out

[hammer4reel]

52 minutes ago, not on the rug said:

I was off today so I took a drive down to EMS. I picked up a Black Diamond Momentum harness and 10ft of 7/16 static rope, good for 29kn.

I tied directly in to the harness, via a standard double figure 8 knot and then finished with a stop knot (fisherman's knot).

At the other end, I double figure 8 knotted to a carabiner, which will clip to my tree strap.  I left myself 4ft from knot to knot.  I think I'm good to go.   Can't wait to try it out

IMO the tubular nylon and carabineers on each end hang flatter under the bottom of your jacket that the ropes with knots.

 

[not on the rug]

7 minutes ago, hammer4reel said:

IMO the tubular nylon and carabineers on each end hang flatter under the bottom of your jacket that the ropes with knots.

 

I'll have to test it out.  They didn't have any rabbit runners in stock and I just wanted to get something so I can use it asap.  If I see an issue with the rope, I'll probably just order a runner online or have one made from the guy you recommended

[allmann]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:14 PM, mazzgolf said:

I bought some from this guy, which was referred to me by others here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-NEW-DRAWS-xx-mm-x-44-long-OR-YOUR-choice-webb-type-RABBIT-RUNNERS-custoMADE/261037085959?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

You can custom order what you want - color, lengths. I use about a 4' length one. It really isn't in the way at all, even attached to your front.

There are no other extra things you need - I still use the same tree rope and safety lines and caribiners. The only thing extra is this rabbit runner.

 

I tried contacting this guy twice and no responses yet. I am a little on the impatient side if you cant tell. Are the ones he has in this ad long enough and what I want?   I asked him for the 1" tubular in the darkest color they have.  If these are long enough I will just buy these and move forward. My harness and carabiners will be here this afternoon.

[mazzgolf]

2 hours ago, allmann said:

I tried contacting this guy twice and no responses yet. I am a little on the impatient side if you cant tell. Are the ones he has in this ad long enough and what I want?   I asked him for the 1" tubular in the darkest color they have.  If these are long enough I will just buy these and move forward. My harness and carabiners will be here this afternoon.

I didn't buy the ones he had there. I asked for black (he has black) and I asked for different sizes - I think I ended up getting a 3', 4' and 5' ones, because I wanted to test with the different sizes and see which one I liked the best. I don't recall having problems getting in touch with him. Maybe put in an actual purchase (rather than just send a message) and in the comments when you submit the purchase, tell him what you want. That might be how I did it. When you actually buy something EBay will be sending him messages so he'll have to respond. In his item listing, he says to add comments with custom requests and he'll get in touch with you about it.

He was very good with me - I went back and forth with him several times as I tried to explain what I was using it for.

[dlist777]

On 10/9/2019 at 3:43 PM, not on the rug said:

I was off today so I took a drive down to EMS. I picked up a Black Diamond Momentum harness and 10ft of 7/16 static rope, good for 29kn.

I tied directly in to the harness, via a standard double figure 8 knot and then finished with a stop knot (fisherman's knot).

At the other end, I double figure 8 knotted to a carabiner, which will clip to my tree strap.  I left myself 4ft from knot to knot.  I think I'm good to go.   Can't wait to try it out

I'm not sure I can visualize what you are doing here.  I think you are saying you have a tee strap that is then connected to your belay loop via 4 feet of climbing rated rope and some knots.  Do I have that right?  

If so, that will definitely stop you from hitting the ground and save your life.  No doubt.  However, depending on where you put your tree strap, opening yourself up to a 4 foot fall on static rope could really hurt.  I guess if you put the tree strap up high, this will help.  You may want to consider adding some type of 'shock absorber' in your set up.  

Something like this:  Petzl Shock Aborber

Or this (this is what I use): DMM RipStop

Both of these are stitched and the stitches are designed to start opening (beginning at 2.5KN) depending on the severity of the fall but are rated all the way up 24kn.  I'm not saying your configuration is unsafe.  It's perfectly safe.  But, this may help esp if you inadvertently let some slack into your system before a fall.  Just food for thought.  

Edited October 11, 2019 by dlist777

[not on the rug]

5 minutes ago, dlist777 said:

I'm not sure I can visualize what you are doing here.  I think you are saying you have a tee strap that is then connected to your belay loop via 4 feet of climbing rated rope and some knots.  Do I have that right?  

If so, that will definitely stop you from hitting the ground and save your life.  No doubt.  However, depending on where you put your tree strap, opening yourself up to a 4 foot fall on static rope could really hurt.  I guess if you put the tree strap up high, this will help.  You may want to consider adding some type of 'shock absorber' in your set up.  

Something like this:  Petzl Shock Aborber

Or this (this is what I use): DMM RipStop

I'm not saying your configuration is unsafe.  It's perfectly safe.  But, this may help esp if you inadvertently let some slack into your system before a fall.  Just food for thought.  

Yeah.  I tied right in to the harness on one end and on to a carabiner on the other end.  The 'biner will clip to my tree strap.  

The fall will never be 4ft. I have to find the sweet spot of where to place the tree strap, but I'm thinking about armpit height would work fine. Maybe higher.   In that regard, any fall would only be  pretty darn short. 

I did the same thing with a standard hunting harness.  The tree strap is placed at a height so that it's nearly taut when you're sitting down. Therefore, any "fall" is less than a foot. just put your feet back on the platform and stand up.  

Does that make sense?

Edited October 11, 2019 by not on the rug

[dlist777]

4 minutes ago, not on the rug said:

Yeah.  I tied right in to the harness on one end and on to a carabiner on the other end.  The 'biner will clip to my tree strap.  

The fall will never be 4ft. I have to find the sweet spot of where to place the tree strap, but I'm thinking about armpit height would work fine. Maybe higher.   In that regard, any fall would only be  pretty darn short. 

I did the same thing with a standard hunting harness.  The tree strap is placed at a height so that it's nearly taut when you're sitting down. Therefore, any "fall" is less than a foot. just put your feet back on the platform and stand up.  

Does that make sense?

Yes.  I would just point out most modern TMA harnesses actually have some shock absorption built into the tether that connects into your shoulders.  You can see it on the HSS harness for example.  It's designed to cushion your fall if slack builds up inadvertently.  Your system has no such shock absorption.  If you are confidant you don't need it, go with what you got.  

Edited October 11, 2019 by dlist777

[not on the rug]

3 minutes ago, dlist777 said:

Yes.  I would just point out most modern TMA harnesses actually have some shock absorption built into the tether that connects into your shoulders.  You can see it on the HSS harness for example.  It's designed to cushion your fall if slack builds up inadvertently.  Your system has no such shock absorption.  If you are confidant you don't need it, go with what you got.  

Agreed.  

Serious question though:  Do you think shock absorption is really necessary for a fall of a foot (give or take a few inches)?

Climbers have been taking 20ft falls for ages without any shock absorption, regrouping and continuing to climb.  Will my 12" fall be that devastating?

[dlist777]

6 minutes ago, not on the rug said:

Agreed.  

Serious question though:  Do you think shock absorption is really necessary for a fall of a foot (give or take a few inches)?

Climbers have been taking 20ft falls for ages without any shock absorption, regrouping and continuing to climb.  Will my 12" fall be that devastating?

For a foot.  No.  But shit happens and slack develops.  

Climbers use dynamic rope (hundreds of feet of it).  It stretches and provides them with shock absorption.  We use static rope (and dynamic wouldn't benefit us since our ropes are not long enough to benefit from the stretching).

 See these two pics?  This is Muddy and HSS.  You can see both have stitching that opens up to cushion a fall.  

I 100% prefer an RC harness over a TMA harness.  But, this is one benefit you could add to your system.  Frankly, it will give you the freedom of setting the tree strap wherever you like.  

This is a good read:  https://rockandice.com/climb-safe/climb-safe-the-dangers-of-short-static-falls/

Edited October 11, 2019 by dlist777

[not on the rug]

I know you're just looking out for my safety and the safety of others, so I appreciate the input. I guess I'm not understanding exactly how "shit happens" in these cases.  If my tree strap slides down the tree, I'd notice.  If it's that loose, there will be problems anyway. 

I know climbers use dynamic rope and I have static rope, but dynamic rope isn't a bungee cord and a 20ft fall is pretty jarring no matter what you're tied to.    

Again, I understand the sewn-in protection in those style harnesses.  I have one and it looks just like that.  I don't want to wear that style harness anymore.  

What does your climbing harness set up look like and where to you place your tree strap?

 

[dlist777]

7 minutes ago, not on the rug said:

I know you're just looking out for my safety and the safety of others, so I appreciate the input. I guess I'm not understanding exactly how "shit happens" in these cases.  If my tree strap slides down the tree, I'd notice.  If it's that loose, there will be problems anyway. 

I know climbers use dynamic rope and I have static rope, but dynamic rope isn't a bungee cord and a 20ft fall is pretty jarring no matter what you're tied to.    

Again, I understand the sewn-in protection in those style harnesses.  I have one and it looks just like that.  I don't want to wear that style harness anymore.  

What does your climbing harness set up look like and where to you place your tree strap?

 

I just put the ripstop into the system.  In yours, you would connect it on either end of your 4 foot rope (either put it between your belay loop and the rope or put it in between your rope and tree strap) via caribiners, shackles, girth hitch, or knots.  I'm definitely not suggesting to go back to a TMA harness.  I was just showing you that they put shock absorption in and their falls should be short too.  So, they see some merit in it.  

This is my tether (please ignore the non-locking caribiner, use a locking one).  I just girth hitch my tether around the tree so it doesn't move around, then run the end to my belay loop via the prussik.  I like the prussik because I can move it.  But, your system is fine and I wouldn't recommend changing it.  Just add the rip stop in there.  

The bottom line is so long as you know how to tie knots (which I'm sure you do), your system is fine as is.  It will save you if you fall.  Sorry if I coming off as a safety-scold, it's  just a suggestion that I use.  

See below: