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JHbowhunter

Great video of doe ducking crossbow bolt! (time for a new debate)

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Posted (edited)

The fact that this is from "THE FIELD ARCHER" should be all the credibility it needs..

 

When when of the most experienced lifetime archers on here (Hammer) stated this as fact, that whether it be due to noise of bow, or noise of approaching projectile, deer can and do "duck" even the highest of speeds bolts fired out of a modern crossbow.  Some found this "preposterous" 

Somehow this video came up on my daily Microsoft alerts - those good big brother folks at MS really have my back and send me links to all sorts of cool hunting and fishing clips.  (Not sure why - but I will take it). 

Also including a picture from Chateau Du Haut-Koenigsbourg Castle in the Alsace Region of France which I just returned from, which does demonstrate that the crossbow is truly a "traditional" archery weapon so there is no debate there.  (I imagine red stage were ducking that traditional x-bow as well thousands of years ago. )

 

IMG_0985[1].JPG

Edited by JHbowhunter
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Posted (edited)

It looked like a hit to me:shock:

7D21BD0C-66A0-4015-95B2-1B7ACFB2A86E.jpeg

Edited by Lunatic
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7 minutes ago, Lunatic said:

It looked looked a hit to me:shock:

yes but did you see how the deer was dropping before the bolt hit...  Looks like deer "ducked" into the bolt...  

Did she hear the bow, or the arrow as it approached. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

yes but did you see how the deer was dropping before the bolt hit...  Looks like deer "ducked" into the bolt...  

Did she hear the bow, or the arrow as it approached. 

This is a 50 yard shot. No one argues they will not try ducking but if on a 50 yard shot this is all deer can do then this video shows me they really do not stand a chance against crossbow.

Edited by Lunatic
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4 minutes ago, Lunatic said:

This is a 50 yard shot. No one argues they will not try ducking but if on a 50 yard shot this is all deer can do then this video shows me they really do not stand a chance against crossbow.

I haven't been able to see a deer duck any of my Matthews bows in the past 16 years...  Older slower bows - yes. 

I was thinking same thing. 50 yards.   The deer only moved as the bolt was about 5 yards from impact.    

So the question is - was it noise of approaching projectile or the noise of the shot getting there just a millisecond before the bolt?    

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

I haven't been able to see a deer duck any of my Matthews bows in the past 16 years...  Older slower bows - yes. 

I was thinking same thing. 50 yards.   The deer only moved as the bolt was about 5 yards from impact.    

So the question is - was it noise of approaching projectile or the noise of the shot getting there just a millisecond before the bolt?    

Good question, who knows? But for sure they hear it before they get hit. Speed of sound is more than double the bolt's speed. 
Now that I bought a new crossbow which shoots 400fps I say there is now possible way for any creature to do it to let say +-40 yards. when I pull the trigger I hear the arrow hit the target almost instantly. It is scary fast. Anything under 30 I will bet everything I have on it.

 

Edited by Lunatic
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2 minutes ago, Lunatic said:

Good question, who knows?

I do.  I'll tell you later.  

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My guess is that they duck the sound of the bow/xbow going off.  We're talking fractions of a second for them to hear the sound, fire the neurons and move their body.  It's truly amazing when you think about it.  

I'd also offer that they may hear certain broadheads whistle in the air, but at that point in time, I don't believe they have the time to duck the arrow/bolt. I've always believed it was reaction to the bow or xbow going off. 

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You also need to look a the doe she was on alert and started the hoof stomp. But I also agree 50 yds gives them more time to duck for sure. 

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Posted (edited)

1, 125.33 feet per second is speed of sound.  That is 375 yards per second, but of course- speed diminishes over distance so it's not absolute.  

But lets say 50 yards (150 feet) , no real loss of bolt speed at 400 FPS.       

If my calculation is currect, sound would hit 150 feet (50 yards)  in .13333 seconds.

The bolt gets there in .375 seconds...

I think I answered my question.  It's the noise of the bow, that causes the deer's reaction...

EXCEPT - one other factor..

You also have a projectile traveling 400 FPS that is also emitting some noise that is traveling 1,125 FPS. 

I don't have that formula, but at 150 feet, and would that bolt push the noise ahead of the original sound of the shot????    We need a mathematician because I do suck at math. 

(If a train left Chicago at 5pm....   that sorta math)

only @Haskell_Hunter  can solve this one!

Edited by JHbowhunter
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Ok, welling If  it’s a debate you’re looking for, I’ll jump in!😁

Stop giving deer supernatural powers, they can’t hear the arrow coming, that’s ridicules! The physiology of the deers body and how they make their first move to flee is simply what is happening here, and is what many have called “ducking” for years. 
We've all seen this a million times, a deer hears the sound of the bow and instinctively makes its move to run off, they don’t run off any differently whether they are being shot at,  or running from any other sound or smell that alarms them. 

I would say however, that in this particular video, that deer was on edge coming in, which is an example of when not to take a shot. That’s where the speed of your arrow makes a difference, a slow bow and you may have a miss or a less then fatal hit. 
I would ask field archer if he could, take some footage of a deer running off that’s not being shot at, I guarantee you’ll see the same exact movement prior to the deer running with no arrow coming towards it. 

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Posted (edited)

Very interesting!!

48 yards!!  Im sure some guys practice that far n further n are very accurate...but its hard to factor in ducking the arrow.  Maybe thats kinda far for any archery equipment....unless u aim low to anticipate the "ducking the arrow" phenomenon....but all deer don't duck the arrow, and aiming low would result in a miss or hitting a leg.

The woods were probably extremely quiet as well.

Also wonder if it was a pressured area n if the deer had previously been shot at over it's back. 

Edited by Bonefreak

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, JHbowhunter said:

1, 125.33 feet per second is speed of sound.  That is 375 yards per second, but of course- speed diminishes over distance so it's not absolute.  

But lets say 50 yards (150 feet) , no real loss of bolt speed at 400 FPS.       

If my calculation is currect, sound would hit 150 feet (50 yards)  in .13333 seconds.

The bolt gets there in .375 seconds...

I think I answered my question.  It's the noise of the bow, that causes the deer's reaction...

EXCEPT - one other factor..

You also have a projectile traveling 400 FPS that is also emitting some noise that is traveling 1,125 FPS. 

I don't have that formula, but at 150 feet, and would that bolt push the noise ahead of the original sound of the shot????    We need a mathematician because I do suck at math. 

(If a train left Chicago at 5pm....   that sorta math)

Y\

Edited by Lunatic

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Didn't I state above that the deer was on alert or as you said on edge already. 

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