my thoughts on the new online permit/FID application process

[Bucndoe]

2 hours ago, Lunatic said:

maybe you paid $23 but  they only asked for 21 because the intent is, "Payment to the issuing Police DepT", for you to pay them directly when picking up your permit.
Anyway its just $2

Correct

[Haskell_Hunter]

30 minutes ago, Bucndoe said:

Incorrect. The 7 days is built into the application process. That is why you don't walk in and get a permit on the spot. You only have to wait 30 days before buying/using another handgun permit

We’re saying the same thing.  There is a 7-day waiting period from the date of application before it can be issued.  Since it is written into the law, it is mandatory.

[mazzgolf]

8 minutes ago, Haskell_Hunter said:

There is a 7-day waiting period from the date of application before it can be issued.

Not all of us have the chief as a neighbor to even be able to conceive of dreaming about getting through this application process in under 7 days 

[Bucndoe]

9 minutes ago, Haskell_Hunter said:

We’re saying the same thing.  There is a 7-day waiting period from the date of application before it can be issued.  Since it is written into the law, it is mandatory.

I am very aware of what the laws are. My point was there is no additional wait of 7 days due to the FARS submission

[Bucndoe]

3 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

Not all of us have the chief as a neighbor to even be able to conceive of dreaming about getting through this application process in under 7 days 

Are you serviced a by local PD or NJSP GP station ?

Edited August 1, 2019 by Bucndoe

[mazzgolf]

26 minutes ago, Bucndoe said:

Are you serviced a by local PD

local

[mazzgolf]

Permit is in hand. Day #48.

But get a load of this, and you tell me if you sense something "off" here.

Here's a timeline and snipped of emails I received from the automated system. Skip to the bottom if you don't want to read all the details.

1. Submitted application late June 18, 2019, got confirmation a little later, just after midnight of June 19. In effect, my application was submitted on June 18.

Quote

Date: Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 12:05 AM

Date of Submission: 06/18/2019
Amount Paid: $ 21.00

2. Within roughly 10 hours, both my references submitted the required information (so my references were not the cause of any delay):

Quote

Date: Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 8:09 AM
Status Update: Reference Questionnaire submitted by <name of first reference redacted>

Quote

Date: Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 10:10 AM
Status Update: Reference Questionnaire submitted by <name of second reference redacted>

3. Friday, June 28 - got email saying my criminal history check was completed

Quote

Date: Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 6:02 AM
Status Update: Criminal History Check completed

4. Monday, July 15 - I talked to an officer over the phone. He told me it is ready - just needs to be "typed up by a secretary and signed by the chief."

5. Friday, July 19 (Day #31 since application submission - 30 days have passed) - I went to the PD in person to ask about the status of my permit. The officer told me they are swamped with permits and mine was not ready. Plus, he told me no one on the office staff works on Fridays so I can't get it prepared today anyway. (TAKE NOTE OF THIS DATE! IT WILL BE IMPORTANT LATER!)

6. Wednesday, July 24 - I get an email from the system saying my permit is approved.  But that I should not go to the PD - I should wait to hear from them first before showing up to pick it up.

Quote

Date: Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:03 AM
Status Update: Approved. DO NOT APPEAR AT THE APPROVING POLICE DEPARTMENT UNTIL YOU HAVE BEEN CONTACTED BY IT'S PERSONNEL TO RETRIEVE YOUR DOCUMENTS.
Your application for a New Jersey Firearm Purchaser Identification Card and/or Permit to Purchase a Handgun(s) has been approved by the issuing authority. The physical card/permit must be obtained at your issuing police department (as indicated on your application).

7. Thursday, August 1, 2019 - No contact from the PD, so I went to the PD again in person to ask about this. I was told "Everyone that deals with the permits are on vacation. The state just sent down a whole stack of permits we have to go through. We'll call you when it's done." Of course, I was earlier told during my previous visit that no one on office staff works on Fridays, so I have no shot at getting my permit the next day either.

8. Monday, August 5, 2019 - Again, no contact from the PD, so I again go to the PD in person.  I never got an email or a phone call saying that my permit was ready to be picked up. I just went in person to ask. Turns out, my permit was there and ready. I paid my $2, gave them my driver's license to photocopy, signed, and walked out with permit in hand. Day #48.

OK, so it took me 48 days.

Here's the part that I really do not like.

I looked at my permit when I got home, and in the "Date Issued" block it is dated 7/19/19 and it appears to be dated in the same color ink as the chief's signature - so that should be the date it was signed and approved/issued.

But now go back in my timeline. That's the same date I was told my permit was not ready AND that no one was working that day to get it ready!!! I also went in on August 1 and was again told I could not get my permit ("everyone is on vacation; lots of permits we have to go through")!!!

Not only that, I didn't get an email until 5 days LATER (July 24) that my permit was approved!

So - answer me this:

* How can the permit have been issued on July 19 when the system didn't say it was approved until 5 days later on July 24?

* Why was I told both on July 19 and then on August 1 that I could not get my permit or my permit was not ready when it turns out it was issued on July 19?

* Why wasn't I called on July 19 (or the following Monday, July 22, or ANY date after that) that I could pick up my permit? 

Is it possible that my permit really wasn't ready on July 19 (which would make sense because that's what the emails would infer and was just what I was told several times), and that the PD signed my permit today but backdated its issue date to July 19 to make it look like it made it under the statutory requirement of 30-days? Because July 19 (the date of issue) just happens to be the 30-day mark.

Something isn't right here.

Note also that because I didn't get my permit until August 5, but it was "issued" on July 19, I effectively lost over 2 weeks of my 90-day period where the permit is valid.

 

[Haskell_Hunter]

8 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

Note also that because I didn't get my permit until August 5, but it was "issued" on July 19, I effectively lost over 2 weeks of my 90-day period where the permit is valid.

Writing the wrong date to backdate it would be illegal.  Holding it longer than 30 days would also not conform to the law.  You can continue to swat the hornet's nest or just suck it up and go through with your purchase.  That's how it works in NJ.

Contact these guys:  https://www.nj2as.org/how_to_address_permit_delays

[mazzgolf]

29 minutes ago, Haskell_Hunter said:

You can continue to swat the hornet's nest or just suck it up

I have no desire to make any kind of stink over this. I'm not even sure why the date issued is what it is. I will take it at face value that my permit was issued on July 19, and be annoyed that I asked TWICE (once on that very date, and once after) and was told my permit was not ready and I was never called or emailed (which I was told I would be on several occasions) that my permit was ready on the 19th.

[Bucndoe]

The issue date probably wasn't the date it was signed by the chief. It isn't valid and ready for pick up until signed by the chief/OIC. It's possible the permit was typed up but the chief was away on vacation and had a stack to sign upon his/her return. It happens and there is nothing illegal about it

[mazzgolf]

2 hours ago, Bucndoe said:

It isn't valid and ready for pick up until signed by the chief/OIC.

There is a 10/17/2019 expiration date listed on the permit (in the "Date Expires" box). That is exactly 90 days past the "Date Issued" of July 19. How can a permit be issued but not be valid?

And July 19 is 5 days earlier than the email I got from the automated system saying it was approved on the 24th and that I need to wait for the local PD to contact me to come pick it up. How can it be issued almost a full week before the automated system marked it as approved?

If it is true it was signed after the issue date of the 19th, regardless of the legality of this backdating, I basically am shorted about 2 weeks - I haven't been given a full 90-days for this permit like the law allows. And note : I was never contacted that I can come pick it up. The automated system has never sent me an email saying "You can go to your PD to pick up your permit" nor did my local PD call me. It would still be sitting there had I not gone over there to ask about it.

In any event, this whole system sucks.

[Bucndoe]

2 hours ago, mazzgolf said:

There is a 10/17/2019 expiration date listed on the permit (in the "Date Expires" box). That is exactly 90 days past the "Date Issued" of July 19. How can a permit be issued but not be valid?

And July 19 is 5 days earlier than the email I got from the automated system saying it was approved on the 24th and that I need to wait for the local PD to contact me to come pick it up. How can it be issued almost a full week before the automated system marked it as approved?

If it is true it was signed after the issue date of the 19th, regardless of the legality of this backdating, I basically am shorted about 2 weeks - I haven't been given a full 90-days for this permit like the law allows. And note : I was never contacted that I can come pick it up. The automated system has never sent me an email saying "You can go to your PD to pick up your permit" nor did my local PD call me. It would still be sitting there had I not gone over there to ask about it.

In any event, this whole system sucks.

The officer most likely hit the Approved button in FARS before actually typing it up and getting it signed by the chief. That is what may have generated the email to you with the date that it did. He/she should have done it after. The system is new for all. You will get an additional 90 days if you don't use it right away with an extension

Edited August 6, 2019 by Bucndoe

[mike033089]

As mentioned earlier I applied to update address and 2 permits late May.  Last reference responded back mid June. I received a call that I need to stop by the state police drop off my $4 check about 2 weeks ago and something along the lines about sending it down or back from Trenton. That’s the last I heard and the check has yet to be cashed. Is what it is. Had an expensive truck repair so that dug  into the firearm fund anyway lol. 

[mazzgolf]

Transfer was done today. I got the privilege to pay another $40 to my local FFL to run the NICS check and do the transfer. My long nightmare is over  

[Haskell_Hunter]

28 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

Transfer was done today. I got the privilege to pay another $40 to my local FFL to run the NICS check and do the transfer. My long nightmare is over  

When it's all said and done, it's a good feeling.  One day, just maybe, this country will be free again.