Planting Forsythia for Deer (and birds and bunnies)

[Rusty]

43 minutes ago, Bucksnbows said:

Rusty, funny stuff.  I forgot about the beer .  And now I remember it wasn't ales but wheat beer you like.  I have one for you to try next time I see you.  You know, on our deep wilderness hunt next week.      

I like beer, period.  Never met a beer I didn't like.  (except sour beer, but that doesn't count.  It's just stupid)

Sadly I can't have no beers next week, I have to hunt.  There's an unfilled stand so I'm gonna have to shoot some deers.  

[Hitemnasty]

Not diggin the "non native" argument thats being talked about more and more. Whats native and whats not? How far back in time do we need to go to find out? Animals and especially plants have been crossing seas and growing roots in "non native" lands since the dawn of time. Because humans come around and decide what is there now must be the only thing to ever be there. Not buying it, we are part of nature just as much as the oak tree, beetle, sparrow and the kangaroo!

If you think about it we are the ultimate “non native” species! What we gonna do bout that?!

Edited October 3, 2018 by Hitemnasty
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[Bucksnbows]

16 hours ago, Hitemnasty said:

Not diggin the "non native" argument thats being talked about more and more. Whats native and whats not? How far back in time do we need to go to find out? Animals and especially plants have been crossing seas and growing roots in "non native" lands since the dawn of time. Because humans come around and decide what is there now must be the only thing to ever be there. Not buying it, we are part of nature just as much as the oak tree, beetle, sparrow and the kangaroo!

If you think about it we are the ultimate “non native” species! What we gonna do bout that?!

It has nothing to do with whether or not humans are "native" - they are.  It has to do with humans bringing in foreign plant and animal species that are highly disruptive to the other native flora and fauna.  Sometimes we don't intend on introducing foreign species but it happens incidentally such as woolly adelgids in what were likely wooden pallets from the East.  It takes Mother Nature a long time to come into equilibrium with these foreign species and they can wreak great havoc.  Look at the billions of dollars we have to spend to keep things like Asian carp from destroying our native Great Lakes fishery, the massive forests of ash we are losing for at least a generation to the Emerald ash borer beetle, or the loss of more than half our native brook trout to brown trout as just a few examples.  Yes, man is native, but only man can change his environment in ways that places tremendous stresses on the natural order.

There is much written about this if you are interested.  And this isn't a "left versus right" issue; some of the most conservative people I know work diligently to eradicate non-native species of plants and animals because of the negative impacts they have on native flora and fauna.  

    

[newjerseyhunter]

5 hours ago, Bucksnbows said:

There is much written about this if you are interested.  And this isn't a "left versus right" issue; some of the most conservative people I know work diligently to eradicate non-native species of plants and animals because of the negative impacts they have on native flora and fauna. 

This really could be a philosophical debate. Logically, Hitemnasty is correct. Species migrate for many reasons. Yes, humans have a much greater capability to affect such migrations than most other animals and natural phenomenon. However, who says that is a good or bad thing? Many humans, like the people you mention, think it is a bad thing because they are just accustomed to the way things are and for one reason or another prefer them to stay the same, see saving Great Lakes fishery from carp. Why is saving the fishery important? Because people like to fish for and eat things other than carp?

 

As far as forsythia, I had no idea deer liked them. I have a whole hedge of forsythia separating me from my neighbor. Deer are constantly in his yard eating from his garden but they never touch our forsythia. I guess they prefer tomatoes!

Edited October 4, 2018 by newjerseyhunter

[Hitemnasty]

Bucksnbows you’re missing my point, I understand how all that works and how biologists need to justify their job and paychecks but...Technically we aren’t native to these lands we migrated here from Africa when it was one continent leavin a wake of destruction to “native” flora and fauna. To my other point how far back in time do biologists go to come to a conclusion on what’s native and what’s not? Like a wrote, we are part of nature so when we introduced another species to another ecosystem we have in essence made that species “native”. There’s ebb and flow all the time and because biologists decide what they think is native is what isn’t and how should be doesn’t really matter. Quote from Jurassic Park “ nature will find a way”! 

[Bucksnbows]

2 minutes ago, Hitemnasty said:

Bucksnbows you’re missing my point, I understand how all that works and how biologists need to justify their job and paychecks but...Technically we aren’t native to these lands we migrated here from Africa when it was one continent leavin a wake of destruction to “native” flora and fauna. To my other point how far back in time do biologists go to come to a conclusion on what’s native and what’s not? Like a wrote, we are part of nature so when we introduced another species to another ecosystem we have in essence made that species “native”. There’s ebb and flow all the time and because biologists decide what they think is native is what isn’t and how should be doesn’t really matter. Quote from Jurassic Park “ nature will find a way”! 

I and many others would disagree with you.  The word native in biology means: "In biogeography, a species is indigenous to a given region or ecosystem if its presence in that region is the result of only natural process, with no human intervention.".  Therefore, if man decides to bring or mistakingly brings in a foreign plant or animal and releases it and it becomes naturalized (reproduces), it is not in any way native by definition.  And that is because man's transplanting the plant or animal is not a natural process.  You can disagree and I can live with it, but I didn't make up the rules.  Ask yourself if you are better off now with your woodlot full of Japanese stiltgrass or mile-a-minute weed, or emerald ash borer beetles, or woolly adelgids, etc. which have forever changed the local landscapes.  Not all introduced species wreak havoc on the existing natives, but they are few and far between.  Introduced pheasants I would put on that list.     

[Russ 11]

What can we do about mile-a-minute ?  It is really bad on one property we hunt and starting up on another . That stuff just swallows up everything . 

[1957Buck]

On 10/2/2018 at 7:55 PM, Rusty said:

I know I'm Forsythe catch flack for this because forsythia is not a native plant,  but the deer really seem to like it and it provides great cover for a wide variety of critters.  

 

 

 

 

I have had Forsythe in my landscaping in all the properties I have Owned. The past 32 years on this property is the Only time I have had deer regularly in my yard Every year it gets cut back big time only to come back Thicker -Healthier & Taller.  It has never spread beyond it base planting. As for the deer browsing on it, I never saw any signs of it.  Be it Spring or Winter when the Yearlings experiment tasting everything in sight. The one is in a bad drainage spot and still dose no spread. Just cut one down 50% got it out for brush pickup. The Arborvitae and Fushia are Deer Candy. That I Spray repellant all year round.  You Deserve no Flack for any Plantings since most Landscaping Specimens are Not so-called native. Plus when The Forsythe when it Loses its Flowers in the spring it is the sign to put down The Crabgrass Preventer.