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MRMCR

Trespassing Or Not ??

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This probably hasnt been challenged in court........but should it be the responsibilty of the state to post where the state lands end....since a private land owner is only responsible for posting on roads.......and could the forest be farmland if the owner is harvesting the trees in a managed way.......

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1 minute ago, MRMCR said:

This probably hasnt been challenged in court........but should it be the responsibilty of the state to post where the state lands end....since a private land owner is only responsible for posting on roads.......and could the forest be farmland if the owner is harvesting the trees in a managed way.......

Most of the locals that try to claim the land as their own pull the State signs down after they are put up

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11 hours ago, rgw said:

tax maps can be way off, they usually dont show boundaries extending in road or water courses

I was using the real ones.  I live right up the road.  The next property upstream does far worse, but I won't go there on a public forum.  This is an issue all over the US where private landowners attempt to keep folks away from their lands by posting public lands adjacent to their private lands. 

Some of you know the Alba Vineyard property on the lower Musky.  Across the road is a big, mowed field and the Alba people mow it and use it for overflow parking during events.  I happen to know it belongs to IPPE, the company that purchased the two old paper mills along the river and all of the property belonging to the mills.  Alba not only tried to post that land, but the owner once tried to chase me off it claiming he "owns that land" as I drove in to park there.  I had full permission from IPPE, and he had no idea.  After he told me he was going to call the cops, I calmly explained that I knew full well he did not own the land, I recited lot and block and then mentioned the IPPE owner's name that had given me permission to be on their lands at any time back when I worked for TU.  The Alba Vineyards owner walked away in shame, caught in a lie.  He still keeps a chain across that lot to keep people from using the property.  We just drive around it to stock the river every Friday at that spot and many others using our transfer truck.  This is far more typical than it should be.      

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1 hour ago, Bucndoe said:

Most of the locals that try to claim the land as their own pull the State signs down after they are put up

I’ve seen that down here by me.  Quite literally rip state signs down and post their own with no name of course. 

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yup taking state signs down and i see newly posted private posted signs ripped down and private signs being put up in place of state signs  also is common practice in NJ. 

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Since the late 50s, we hunted The Oxford area all along Rt 31 to Rt 46 to Warren Haven and beyond to Apple Mountain Oxford Furnace. All along the Pequest River where the Hatchery now sits was a Dairy Farm There were little-posted lands but for the Lands Posted with    ( Posted Be A Sportsman Ask Permission ), there were 5 Zones with this poster Called Warren Gun Club you went to the post office Paid $5 for a Membership ID card a Patch was Extra $2. The area also had a few private Clubs on mechanic Rd.  Trespassing was hard to do then.  The State would drop off birds at random. Small game hunting was Fantastic Deer were nothing to brag about but were big and healthy. Most Hunters Short stopped at Clinton WLMA  Whether the Posters had a play in that I don't know since Poster were respected as Private lands were.  IMO it was not until the 70s that the mindset of Hunting and fishing changed Maybe it was the economy and free time, people gained.  Yes, there were Issues but NOTHING like today where Hunting and fishing have become a Competition amongst the Majority.And all The Commercialism surrounding all the Gadgets available.   The Old Tired saying back in the good old days has a lot of meaning that is always lost on how things are today.  It was called hunting back then for wild game, not shooting of Stocked or Transplanted over managed Game. with a $1000 of unneeded I will just call Stuff.  Or Being in Style and Lockstep with Society.   I am not Knocking the methods used today or the Disrespect of others on each other and landowners. I leave that to others to do with all the bitching and moaning of the conditions of Today's environment surrounding hunting and fishing.       Amen                                                                                                                                                                                                          See if you can make out the name on the General Store  

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I have permission on some private property -- a wooded lot (not farmland - which, as someone mentioned, is different but it didn't sound like OP was on cultivated farmland).

I had trespasser issues which is why I looked up the trespass laws originally - I wanted to know what the law actually said.  So I found that fish/game trespass law and the criminal trespass law, too, which is 2C:18-3 (see https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2013/title-2c/section-2c-18-3 - but that criminal trespass law mainly deals with entering buildings or fenced in properties and peeping Toms but also mentioned posted properties too) .

Before I read them, I was thinking they would say exactly what most people think they would say and what the digest seems to say -- "If you are hunting, fishing, or trapping on private property that you do not own, you are trespassing and can be fined" - but that is not what the law says. You technically can't be fined unless the property is posted or you were previously told by the owner you do not have permission. You can be kicked off if caught trespassing, obviously, but not ticketed/fined that first time.

I had a CO come over when I called to complain about the trespassers (and thieves). He came over and talked to me about it. He told me hang the signs up high so people can't easily rip them down. Doesn't matter if they aren't eye-level or things like that - the fact is you posted the property with "conspicuous" signs (hanging a sign 8 or 10 feet up on a tree doesn't necessarily make them inconspicuous). But he said without the signs around the property and at the entrance road, he can't technically ticket any hunters for trespassing the first time they are caught. He could only warn them that first time.

This was a few years ago - I've since given up on that property because when you have thieves that think nothing of stealing and destroying stuff, the trespassing laws mean nothing to them either. Too much of a hassle to deal with, especially when the property wasn't that great for hunting as it was.

 

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41 minutes ago, buckhound said:

yup taking state signs down and i see newly posted private posted signs ripped down and private signs being put up in place of state signs  also is common practice in NJ. 

I saw that myself! Some folks basically posted one end of a WMA and made it their own private area. I reported it and DFW told me to take pictures and tell them where they were. I didn't bother, I figured the signs would just go up again once DFW removed them.

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40 minutes ago, mazzgolf said:

I have permission on some private property -- a wooded lot (not farmland - which, as someone mentioned, is different but it didn't sound like OP was on cultivated farmland).

Once we exited the river we were walking just above the bank.....the owner although they do mow it , uses it primarily as a dumping ground, for manure brush etc.......would not have exited this way , but my daughter ( 23 years old ) didnt want to cross the stream with water almost chest high......( in some spots, hey she was a chicken ) ......but I give her a lot of credit not too many girls her age who like to fish......

 

 

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1 hour ago, mazzgolf said:

Before I read them, I was thinking they would say exactly what most people think they would say and what the digest seems to say -- "If you are hunting, fishing, or trapping on private property that you do not own, you are trespassing and can be fined" - but that is not what the law says. You technically can't be fined unless the property is posted or you were previously told by the owner you do not have permission. You can be kicked off if caught trespassing, obviously, but not ticketed/fined that first time.

 

The Division has it correct.  They are not saying in all cases, they are saying that you can be fined if the property is legally posted or if the landowner can prove they've previously asked you not to trespass.  What they are trying to do in general is prevent hunters and anglers from trespassing in the first place so that more and more lands don't get shut down to hunting and angling.  

 

NJ law states that if you trespass on legally posted lands, the landowner can go after you for Defiant Trespass and those laws have teeth.  I know clubs that us Defiant Trespass laws like a sledge hammer to keep out trespassers.  Word gets around quick.  But most locals trying to keep you off public lands near them are only bluffing because they know you're not from around their parts.     

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I know this thread is like a year old but just came across it.  I used to fish this section often but sometime last spring I also was told by the landowner that he owned both sides of the river and that I was trespassing even though I was pretty sure I was on state land.  I spoke with the township and the state and they both assured me the north/west bank is owned by the state.  I have not been back to the stretch since I spoke with the landowner but was planning a return trip soon.  Just curious though, does any one who is familiar with this WMA know if the landowner on the private side now realizes he doesnt own it or am I in for another headache if I run into him?  Thanks.

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23 minutes ago, NJbuckeye said:

I know this thread is like a year old but just came across it.  I used to fish this section often but sometime last spring I also was told by the landowner that he owned both sides of the river and that I was trespassing even though I was pretty sure I was on state land.  I spoke with the township and the state and they both assured me the north/west bank is owned by the state.  I have not been back to the stretch since I spoke with the landowner but was planning a return trip soon.  Just curious though, does any one who is familiar with this WMA know if the landowner on the private side now realizes he doesnt own it or am I in for another headache if I run into him?  Thanks.

What do you think? He knows his property but will try with anyone to tell them he owns adjacent land to keep it to himself.

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I have no idea if he is/was attempting to keep people off land he knows is state owned or he truly believes he owns both sides

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Have a CO's cell phone number programmed in your phone ahead of time. If anyone tells you to get off state property because they claim it is their private property, tell them, "Hang on a minute, let me call a NJ conservation officer and ask him to come over - he'll set one of us straight". You might even give a CO a heads up about the problem and that you might need to call them.

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On 4/30/2018 at 5:23 PM, Greybeard said:

According to mazzgolf's quote, you are considered a trespasser, but not liable to a civil penalty until after being warned.   I had thought the posting laws were eliminated a long time ago, and it was no longer necessary to post private land as a warning.:think:

  Quote

A person who trespasses on the lands of another for the purpose of hunting, fishing, trapping, or taking wildlife, or attempting to hunt, fish, trap, or take wildlife, after notice bearing the name of the owner, occupant, or lessee thereof, forbidding the trespass, has been conspicuously posted by the owner, occupant, or lessee with intervisible signs displayed not fewer than ten to a mile along the exterior boundaries and at all roads, trails and rights-of-way entering such land, or after having been forbidden so to trespass by the owner, occupant, or lessee, shall be liable to a civil penalty

IMO  the posting law should not exist. It just gives people an opportunity to trespass with impunity. If you are not on your own land then don't be there unless you do your homework and know the property lines. Make the trespasser responsible for knowing where he is at.

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