Firearms Transportation Question

[230jhp]

As everyone on here knows we have some ridiculous unconstitutional gun laws in NJ. One is something to the effect that when transporting a firearm the weapon must be in a different compartment of the vehicle than the ammo.  I am not sure if this only applies to pistols or if it applies to long guns as well.

 

On my .243 and on my Savage 220 I have those ammo holders that attach to the stock. So if this stupid law applies to long guns having ammo in these holders while transporting these weapons would be illegal.  Opinions?

[Haskell_Hunter]

Yes, consider that illegal.

 

If you have a semi-automatic pistol with a magazine loaded but in a locked compartment separate from the gun, the gun is considered loaded.

 

I cannot find anything in the NJ statues that corroborates these conditions as being illegal, but I have been advised by other people smarter than me that they are.

 

If you have ammo on the stock, it will be considered loaded.

[Bucndoe]

Having ammo on the stock is not separate and is a violation. Pretty simple concept, even for NJ

[Nanuk]

Just take every precaution necessary , last thing you want is to be hassled by an officer cause he has the same difficultly in deciphering the laws that you do that also keep changing everyday .... While you may be in the right the headache of waiting on the side of the road is not worth the 5 mins of effort of putting the ammo else where. When traveling I case , trigger lock and have ammo seperate , it puts the officer at ease . Overkill but I've heard horror stories. GL and safe travels

[cappy]

Pretty simple, always keep the ammo separate from the firearm.  Do not have magazines with ammo in them, pretty much considered the same as a loaded weapon.  If you can't keep the ammo separate due to the configuration of your vehicle, such as an SUV, keep the ammo in a locked box.  

 

Always try to cover everything up so it's not visible from a window.  If you get pulled over your not obligated to tell the officer you have weapons, or ammo in the vehicle, if your transporting them legally. 

[1563621]

A few years ago I was heading to the range in my P/U. Stopped at a store in so. toms river. Locked keys in truck. Flagged down a so toms river officer. Said I locked my keys in the truck , he says "Call a Locksmith". I said, "But there are 2 handguns in the cab"!!!!!!!!!!!. He says " I will open that up for you sir". Got out his jimmy bar, popped lock, and the next comment was "Have a nice day sir".

 Class act! No issues.

[RPK0620]

Lots of information here:  http://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/index.shtml

[Haskell_Hunter]

Lots of information here:  http://www.nj.gov/njsp/firearms/index.shtml

 

I have found that the NJ State Police site has incorrect and misleading information about NJ's firearms laws.

[jerseyhunter]

Why take a chance in Joisey.  When I go hunting I break my firearm down, wrapped and locked in different cases, and Have my wife follow me with the ammo in  separate locked containers inside the locked trunk owned formerly by Houdini which is then locked in the car trunk.

[RPK0620]

I have found that the NJ State Police site has incorrect and misleading information about NJ's firearms laws.

 

You are probably correct, but I carry a printed copy of the State Police information from their site in my vehicle,   just in case,   I get stopped.

I don't know if it would help but I would at least be able to show that I am complying with the law as the State Police have it written.

[Bucndoe]

The NJSP Firearms Unit are the ones that answer all firearms questions from Municipal and County agencies in the entire state. The information on their site is accurate and THE NJ Law. If one doesn't agree with it, it doesn't make it incorrect and misleading. It is what it is. All FID applications and handgun permits go to/through them and they work closely with a Deputy Attorney General on all gun matters.

[Haskell_Hunter]

The NJSP Firearms Unit are the ones that answer all firearms questions from Municipal and County agencies in the entire state. The information on their site is accurate and THE NJ Law. If one doesn't agree with it, it doesn't make it incorrect and misleading. It is what it is. All FID applications and handgun permits go to/through them and they work closely with a Deputy Attorney General on all gun matters.

 

I've read their site and the statues and they are not the same.  I'm not a lawyer, but the guidance on the NJSP site, based on their wording, does not appear in the actual law.  I will always defer to an attorney in this regard to be 100% sure, but the poor wording between the NJSP and the statues is usually the reason why people get arrested and at times their cases overturned.  Regardless, it makes it very frustrating to be a law-abiding citizen.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Okay, maybe the confusion is on my part.  There are two sections of the law (things a first year law student would know, but alas, I was never one)--statues and administrative code.  From what I can understand thus far, the legislators pass statues, and the administrative agency further interprets those statues to become administrative codes.

 

So for example, Title 2C:39-1  Definitions of the NJ Statue on Firearms is similar to N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 (2016), but the latter goes into more details than the statues.  Confused?  I am.

 

So I searched both the statues and the administrative code for the word "transport"--the sections listed on the NJSP website and I could not find a citation that related to this statement on the NJSP's website (http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml):

 

"The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console."

 

They refer to NJS 2C:39-6g, which states:

 

"g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

 

There is nothing in that section of the statue that states that the ammo needs to be in a locked container.  There is nothing in NJAC Title 13, Chapter 54 (also noted on their site) that mentions anything about the transportation of a firearm.

 

This is a very specific case where the statements on the NJSP site have no foundation in statue or administrative code.  If I'm wrong, I'd like to know where this law/code/regulation exists for my own knowledge.  I try to do everything I can to keep up on these draconian and illogical laws, so please let me know where I've missed something.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Haskell_Hunter

[Bucndoe]

Transportation follows Federal Guidelines. NJ firearms laws are in THREE (3) places. All need to be read fully to understand the laws and exceptions/exemptions. Most people only read one and they think they know the law but they are entirely incorrect. As per a NJ Court ruling and precedent, ammo in a magazine or with a firearm is regarded as a loaded firearm and is clearly not UNLOADED as transportation in 2C:39-6g requires, which is UNLAWFUL. This is explained on the very website that you are saying is wrong.

 

The 3 locations of the laws are:

2C Chapter 39

2C Chapter 58

Title 13 of the Administrative Code (which is NJ Law also)

Edited November 23, 2016 by Bucndoe

[Haskell_Hunter]

Transportation follows Federal Guidelines. NJ firearms laws are in THREE (3) places. All need to be read fully to understand the laws and exceptions/exemptions. Most people only read one and they think they know the law but they are entirely incorrect. As per a NJ Court ruling and precedent, ammo in a magazine or with a firearm is regarded as a loaded firearm and is clearly not UNLOADED as transportation in 2C:39-6g requires, which is UNLAWFUL. This is explained on the very website that you are saying is wrong.

 

The 3 locations of the laws are:

2C Chapter 39

2C Chapter 58

Title 13 of the Administrative Code (which is NJ Law also)

 

I agree with you there, but what I want to point out is that there it isn't stated anywhere (and I didn't look into case law) in 2C:39, 2C:58, or NJAC Title 13 that the ammo or the gun must be kept in a locked container, only a locked trunk.  However the NJSP statement says it needs to be in a locked container.  That's what I was trying to resolve.

 

I have a pickup truck and often times will transport many guns--pistols and long guns--in a case with a fastener (not locked) and in a separate bag I'll have all of the ammo (and the bag has a zipper, which is a fastener).  I am concerned that I am not legally compliant, hence my review of 2C:39, 2C:58, and NJAC Title 13.  Since in any of these three things it doesn't say that the ammo needs to be locked, I have always thought I was compliant.  I have spoken to firearms instructors who say "as long as everything is in a container with a fastener--ammo and firearm separate containers--you are okay".

 

 

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm sincerely trying to understand this so I can comply with the law.  If it isn't specifically stated in a statue or code, it's not law.  Just because the NJSP put that interpretation on their website doesn't make it law either.

 

I might have to email a couple of lawyers to help me understand this, but I do appreciate the time you've taken to point out where I should be looking.