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Pledge of Allegiance


49 replies to this topic

#21 Male OFFLINE   DBuck

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Posted 02/13/13 - 05:13 PM

Fine Matt... I'll be a lurker... But the political post are certainly not occasional
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

#22 Male ONLINE   BowhunterNJ

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Posted 02/13/13 - 05:17 PM

I don't want to see you just lurk, I just want to see you get more involved in the content this site *should* revolve around! :)

#23 Male ONLINE   Haskell_Hunter

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Posted 02/13/13 - 05:34 PM

I want to contribute another non-believer's perspective--mine.

I do not believe in God. However, I do believe in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. This country was founded as a secular country in the midst of religious persecution. Our Founding Fathers had the incredible foresight and wisdom to design a document that broadly protects a person's right to be whomever they want to be.

Our Constitution guarantees a person their right to worship whatever god they want to or not. It acknowledges religion without endorsing any particular one. Although I don't believe in god, I must acknowledge that religion exists in the beliefs of my fellow citizens. I adamantly oppose those atheists who proclaim there is some clearly defined law that prohibits religion in government. History demonstrates quite the opposite. Atheists who attempt to sterilize America from religion are, in my opinion, going against the spirit and the grain of what the US Constitution guarantees! If the government cannot impose Roman Catholicism on its citizens, then it also cannot deny those same citizens their right to practice and express their religious beliefs. Removing religion is denying religion, which is a direct violation of the US Constitution in spirit and writ.

The First and Second Amendments to the US Constitution are the most loathed and despised concepts in the world today. All governments would prefer to deny their citizens the right to freely express themselves. In Iran Catholic believers are imprisoned, and around the world Jews and Muslims are killed for their beliefs. However, in the US they are free to practice their religion and freely express themselves. We are very. very unique in the world in this way. This is something that makes us American. This is something we all should embrace. Yes, I don't believe in god, but I live in a country in which every person can freely express themselves. Damn it, that's something to be proud of. That's something soldiers die protecting every day. It's something I can believe in and too will protect.

Feel free to believe in whatever you want to or not. However, the bigger man will respect another man's difference of opinion without imposing his values on him.

US citizens have constitutionally protected rights - but they're only paper protections if they can't be freely exercised.

--BBC News

 

The right to revolt has sources deep in our history.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

 

Ideas are indeed the most dangerous weapons in the world. Our ideas of freedom are the most powerful political weapons man has ever forged.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas


#24 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/13/13 - 05:37 PM

Well, I can see this subject discussion is causing an issue and it can only escalate due to the subject matter that is as, or more, volatile than gun rights! I am not pushing my beliefs on anyone, nor am I eliciting challenges by stating derogatory remarks aimed at the "majority," just because I can.

I will leave this discussion with a very clever anecdote that follows below. It's a bit long, but if you read it in it's entirety I think everyone, even those without "God issues" will find it very thought provoking and leave you with a smile. I'll bet you a box of bullets that you will smile at some point while reading it!


Subject: Fw: God vs Science


THE LAST SENTENCE IS A SHOCKER

God vs. Science!!!
IF YOU READ THE FIRST SENTENCE, YOU WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THE END. THE LAST SENTENCE IS A SHOCKER.

Hang in there and read to the end....very interesting!
'Let me explain the problem science has with religion.'

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then
asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely. '

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly.. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a
moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a
sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you
help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good....!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer,
even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can
you answer that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor
says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give
the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God
good?'

'Er..yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil
in this world?'

'Yes, sir..'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists,
and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then
God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this
world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer.
Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom.
The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto
another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'


The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir.. I've never seen Him..'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not..'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for
that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies.. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science
has with God.. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '

' Yes.

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room
suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can
have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited
heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything
called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458
degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or
transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or
transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat.
You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of
heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units
because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the
absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation.. 'What is night if it
isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing
and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define
the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to
make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will
be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can
you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains..
'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a
bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite,
something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.'
'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully
understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be
ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell
me, professor.. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a
monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed..

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you
not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a
preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion
has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the
other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student
looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen
the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there
anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the
professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no
brain, with all due respect, sir..' 'So if science says you have no
brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man
answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as
evil?'

Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it
Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is
in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is
just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe
the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what
happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's
like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that
comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.


If you read it all the way through and had a smile on your face when
you finished, mail to your friends and family with the title 'God vs.
Science'

PS: the student was Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein wrote a book titled God vs. Science in 1921...

#25 Male ONLINE   BowhunterNJ

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Posted 02/13/13 - 05:42 PM

Feel free to believe in whatever you want to or not. However, the bigger man will respect another man's difference of opinion without imposing his values on him.


Well said, very well said :up:

#26 Male OFFLINE   MackofallTrades

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Posted 02/14/13 - 12:57 PM

Well, I can see this subject discussion is causing an issue and it can only escalate due to the subject matter that is as, or more, volatile than gun rights! I am not pushing my beliefs on anyone, nor am I eliciting challenges by stating derogatory remarks aimed at the "majority," just because I can.

I will leave this discussion with a very clever anecdote that follows below. It's a bit long, but if you read it in it's entirety I think everyone, even those without "God issues" will find it very thought provoking and leave you with a smile. I'll bet you a box of bullets that you will smile at some point while reading it!


Subject: Fw: God vs Science

.....Removed to make this shorter.....

PS: the student was Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein wrote a book titled God vs. Science in 1921...


False. Accuracy always counts.

http://www.snopes.co...on/einstein.asp

Einstein rejected "labels," but he surely was not a believer.

- Mack


#27 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/14/13 - 03:00 PM

False. Accuracy always counts.


Whether he was a believer or not is not really the issue. Somebody may have placed his name on it for the "effect" apparently.

Whether it was Einstein or Gandhi, or some obscure author, it doesn't really matter. The point is the thought provocation that the story elicits. And, the author didn't necessarily have to be a believer, he was just arguing the possibilities from a scientific standpoint, or lack thereof!

#28 Male OFFLINE   MackofallTrades

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Posted 02/14/13 - 03:16 PM

Whether it was Einstein or Gandhi, or some obscure author, it doesn't really matter.


I respectfully disagree. The opening statement emphasized the person who had this debate/encounter. Being that it was Einstein, the intent was to mislead the reader by suggesting a highly respected man of science believed something, so therefore everyone else should as well. The intent is to invoke a feeling of "Who are we to judge a man like Einstein?"

The story about Einstein is an ad hominem argument and should be considered deceitful at best.

Had it not been attributed to Einstein, I probably would have been able to agree with your principle.

- Mack


#29 Male OFFLINE   rossbowhunter

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Posted 02/14/13 - 03:23 PM

"Why not share some of your hunting/fishing experiences "

There you go!:up::up::up:

Paul M. Ross

Coldwell Banker Sales Associate

908-943-8842


#30 Male OFFLINE   MackofallTrades

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Posted 02/14/13 - 03:26 PM

"Why not share some of your hunting/fishing experiences "

There you go!:up::up::up:


I once when on this hunting website, and....

;)

- Mack


#31 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/14/13 - 03:42 PM

I respectfully disagree.


Likewise Mack. You can't disregard a statement strictly due to the person that said it. Yes, the "hook" if you will, was Einstein, but the content and thought provocation was the same no matter.

The first line, and last line, have no bearing on the content, other than to get you to read it. Just like any other sales pitch where the advertisement attempts to get you to try the product and then the hope is that the product will then sell itself.

So, how's your hunting season going? LOL

#32 Male OFFLINE   MackofallTrades

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Posted 02/14/13 - 04:16 PM

Over. Had a bad incident in November and it turned me off for the year.

Might try for turkey. Thanks for asking.

- Mack


#33 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/14/13 - 04:24 PM

That sucks.

I managed to kill a 5 pt earlier this week. Called it a season after that, but I'm itchin again! May get out for the last two days. Hopefully your incident will be forgotten soon enough and you'll be ready to go next season.

#34 Male OFFLINE   MackofallTrades

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Posted 02/15/13 - 07:40 AM

I'm sure I will be fine. More disgusted with the fact that I rushed a shot on a pretty nice buck than anything else.

Congrats on the 5pt.! (pics or it didn't happen! lol)

- Mack


#35 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/15/13 - 08:35 AM

(pics or it didn't happen! lol)


Had to go there didn't you?!!! LOL

I didn't post it on the other threads asking about is anyone still hunting and the like, because the only pic I have is fairly graphic. Not sure how this new site will view it. But since you "called" me on it, I will post a pic and if the mods think it's too much I would hope they will quickly remove it. And then I can blame you for it! LOL

photo (2).JPG


#36 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/15/13 - 08:38 AM

Oh yeah, and Mack? I "didn't" rush my shot...

#37 Male OFFLINE   madcat2

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Posted 02/15/13 - 08:53 AM

Nice deer Pathman :cheers:
"Nothin makes a dad happier than seeing his daughter with a smile on her face and her boyfriend with fear in his eyes" - Willie Robertson

#38 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/15/13 - 11:14 AM

Thanks MCat!

#39 Male OFFLINE   MackofallTrades

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Posted 02/15/13 - 03:10 PM

Nice Deer!

- Mack


#40 Male OFFLINE   Gruntmaster

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Posted 02/15/13 - 04:31 PM

Pathman.....270 Winchester...
J/K, Thanks.

NRA Life Member
"From My Cold Dead Hands"                          I'm all for Gun Control...I use both Hands.

 





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