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Dorner In A Shoot Out With Police


95 replies to this topic

#81 Male OFFLINE   Palawman30

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Posted 02/13/13 - 06:20 PM

Matty
Im going to agree to disagree.. He may have been great soldier. That does not always translate to being a good officer.
The guy lied...he was found guilty by iab...he also lost his civil suit because he was a liar. He was not a cop ling enough to know the inner workings of any dept.
I understand your view and agree with some points. I also firmly believe he came bavk to the us with severe ptsd.

#82 Male OFFLINE   Palawman30

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Posted 02/13/13 - 06:26 PM

Im done with this thread. Ive said my piece and am going to work. Good day

#83 OFFLINE   Bmarshhunt

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Posted 02/13/13 - 06:28 PM

I didn't see where the building was intentionally lit on fire... Explosive canisters used for of (pepper) , tear gas, and smoke do explode and do start small fires.... If he didn't come out then no one probably went in and put the fire out......

#84 Male OFFLINE   Matty

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Posted 02/13/13 - 06:31 PM

I can agree to respectfully disagree on the matter.

I also feel that neither of us is close enough to the issue, nor supplied with enough solid facts to make absolute decisions or form concrete opinions on it. We can speculate on motives, or PTSD, but really....when it all boils down. Only the people that were involved in the incident in 2008 know all of the absolute facts. Now one of them is dead. So we may never know the entire timeline that led up to this horrific event.

We can all agree on one thing at least. This was a horrible tragedy. Instead of arguing with each other about motives or the character of those involved, we should pray for the families of those that lost loved ones.

If you're too busy to hunt....You're too busy!

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#85 Male OFFLINE   makosnax

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Posted 02/13/13 - 06:47 PM

For the record palawman he was SUSPECTED of these crimes . He was not a KNOWN murderer

#86 Male ONLINE   BHC

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Posted 02/13/13 - 06:52 PM

"For the record palawman he was SUSPECTED of these crimes . He was not a KNOWN murderer"

Amazing, you said that.....

Cause his manifesto are nothing but allegations.......No different then he being suspected of the crimes we have been told he did, but you want to believe his manifesto is etched in stone, and everything else is suspect and the police are just down right wrong, and dirty

#87 Male OFFLINE   Drop Tine

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Posted 02/14/13 - 08:52 AM

My personal take away from this is; It's clear our country is slipping down the tubes faster and faster with every media sensationalized incident....

Our political leaders and legislators have clearly lost there way... They seem to think every time something horrific happens and the media of this country sensationalizes it, that it is there job to fly in like a super hero and manipulate our Constitution, suppress even more of our rights and freedoms by formulating and enacting even more useless laws in an attempt force others to somehow fallow the freedom restricting laws they have foolishly already enacted and clearly don't work since criminals don't fallow the law...

It seems they no longer see themselves as legislators, but fancy themselves as some sort of great "law enforcers" and the true protectors of society.... the words "BAN and Control" should never be uttered in a free society... one must wonder what new laws they will try and in-act because of this latest crime spree.....



BUT back to the point at hand... The purpose of appointing "Law Enforcement" in our country was for the enforcing of laws and apprehending those whom are suspected of breaking the laws, so that they may face the Justice system....

It is not in any way, shape, or form the duty of law enforcement to make themselves the judge, jury, and or executioner in any situation, that is not how our justice system is designed nor works in this country....

The law doesn't change based on what a person is accused of doing or because the emotions of the police involved are charged up.

Law Enforcement nor the media have the right or power to; presume guilt, convict, or carry out justice on anyone....no matter what one is accused of doing, saying, or writing, we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law....

That's not just my opinion but it is the constitutional right of every American.....


while I certainly am glad that the threat this guy posed is over.... IMO (of in which I am entitled to) I think the actual manner to which it was brought to an end is not the way we should ever handle justice....

}}}--I certainly do chase New Jersey's BIG Bucks, BIG Birds, and BIG Fish--->

Best Bow Buck to date; 2011 Gross; 142 6/8
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Best Northern Pike to date; 40" (Passaic River Pike )
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#88 Male OFFLINE   Drop Tine

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Posted 02/14/13 - 10:11 AM

Posted Image

}}}--I certainly do chase New Jersey's BIG Bucks, BIG Birds, and BIG Fish--->

Best Bow Buck to date; 2011 Gross; 142 6/8
Best Gobbler to date; 2012 NWTF score of 77.5
Best Northern Pike to date; 40" (Passaic River Pike )
Best Muskie to date; (The hunt begins)


#89 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/14/13 - 10:37 AM

I think the actual manner to which it was brought to an end is not the way we should ever handle justice....


While I agree with 90% of your post Droptine, this last sentence I can't agree with. You weren't at the scene, nor was I, we have no way of knowing at this point how the events unfolded. So, I think the same presumption of innocence you advocate for the suspect, should also be equally applied to LE until all the facts are made public.

#90 Male OFFLINE   Drop Tine

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Posted 02/14/13 - 10:44 AM

Good point Pathman.... I should have worded it a little differently ( I should have said "APPARENT WAY" instead actual way) but like I said , it's just my opinion and time will tell....

}}}--I certainly do chase New Jersey's BIG Bucks, BIG Birds, and BIG Fish--->

Best Bow Buck to date; 2011 Gross; 142 6/8
Best Gobbler to date; 2012 NWTF score of 77.5
Best Northern Pike to date; 40" (Passaic River Pike )
Best Muskie to date; (The hunt begins)


#91 OFFLINE   Pathman

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Posted 02/14/13 - 10:47 AM

and time will tell....


We can only hope Droptine...

#92 Male OFFLINE   Matty

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Posted 02/14/13 - 10:48 AM

I don't think they had any options but to eliminate this threat.

Unfortunately, nothing suggests he would have surrendered peacefully, so the end result seems to have been unavoidable. The means by which they ended his life are insignificant in my opinion. For all we know, he may have shot himself, knowing capture was inevitable.

Decisions rendered in a situation like that have to take into consideration the safety of all the responding officers and any nearby civilians should he somehow escape and elude them.

My problem with the whole thing is: What drove this seemingly outstanding individual to snap and commit such attrocities. I have to believe it all leads back to the LAPD with a coverup. BUT...I could be wrong. Maybe it was something else. We'll probably never know.

If you're too busy to hunt....You're too busy!

- Sent from my Alexander Graham Bell Hand Crank Model Mar101876 Phone


#93 Male OFFLINE   Palawman30

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Posted 02/14/13 - 11:11 AM

I don't think they had any options but to eliminate this threat.

Unfortunately, nothing suggests he would have surrendered peacefully, so the end result seems to have been unavoidable. The means by which they ended his life are insignificant in my opinion. For all we know, he may have shot himself, knowing capture was inevitable.

Decisions rendered in a situation like that have to take into consideration the safety of all the responding officers and any nearby civilians should he somehow escape and elude them.

My problem with the whole thing is: What drove this seemingly outstanding individual to snap and commit such attrocities. I have to believe it all leads back to the LAPD with a coverup. BUT...I could be wrong. Maybe it was something else. We'll probably never know.




Matty
I don't for one second believe the LAPD is covering up anything or drove this guy to murder.

Let's start at the beginning for this guy.
He had to do basic Training TWICE because of disciplinary issues.
Once out of basic he was disciplined again.
In the police academy he was yet again disciplined.
He then was deployed while still in the academy.
He came back, finished the academy and went on field training. He was still NOT A FULL officer.
He iniated an internal affairs investigation. Why? my guess is to get a more favorable assignment once he was a full officer.
He was then PROVEN to have LIED during that investigation.
He was fired in 2008.
He was not a cop long enough to even know the inner workings of a department. He fabricated the allegations in his manifesto.
He filed a civil suit against the LAPD.
To win a civil case is not the same standard as a criminal case.
Criminal case has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt.
To win a civil case you only need to be right 51%... A much lower standard.
He lost that case also.

So he we are 4 years later. What we have here is a man who believe in his mind that the whole world was against him.
He believed he was wronged. Sometimes what people believe and what's reality are 2 different things.
No coverup.

Serpico in new York was an absolute coverup. The officers were fired and jailed.

If there was even an iota of truth to any of his allegations believe me this, they are already being investigated. This is not 1950. Whats done in the dark always comes to light.

This guy was a nut. He was a egocentric narcisscist who felt emotional pain more than the average person. He believed everyone was against him. He was a murderer who had no problem shooting at anyone in his way. He chose his own path unfortunately taking innocent lives with him.

#94 Male ONLINE   BowhunterNJ

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Posted 02/14/13 - 11:14 AM

Thanks for keeping the continuation of this discussion civil guys! :up:

#95 Male OFFLINE   flat9999

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Posted 02/14/13 - 11:48 AM

I don't for one second believe the LAPD is covering up anything or drove this guy to murder.

The same LAPD that is widely known and proven to have been one of the most corrupt departments in US history?

If you're saying that everything was done correctly and that the overall outcome is satisfactory to you. Well, that's fine.

I don't happen to think that it is enough for me. I see innocent people dead and shot at, and I demand that the people responsible for it are punished.

#96 Male OFFLINE   makosnax

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Posted 02/14/13 - 01:31 PM

The same LAPD that is widely known and proven to have been one of the most corrupt departments in US history?

If you're saying that everything was done correctly and that the overall outcome is satisfactory to you. Well, that's fine.

I don't happen to think that it is enough for me. I see innocent people dead and shot at, and I demand that the people responsible for it are punished.


The reason that they will not be punished is the same reason it all started.




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