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Full frontal shot.. should i take it?...


48 replies to this topic

#1 Male OFFLINE   Axiom

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Posted 01/02/14 - 06:23 PM

Ok so, today i'm in my ground blind and  get these 2 does come in within 15 yards.. They showed up about 5 minutes before end of legal shooting time.. I wait for a good shot...My cell phone starts to vibrate indicating i have one minute left, But the does wont give me anything but a straight up front shot..  SO heres my question... Any one ever take a shot like that and get good results?.. At 15 yards i can split arrows with my x bow so hitting what i'm aiming at aint a problem..I would think a heart shot would be a good bet...no?


:D


#2 Male OFFLINE   robnj

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Posted 01/02/14 - 08:05 PM

I shot a buck with the muzzle loader like that. It was the most disgusting gut job I ever had to do. A crossbow might be ripping into that area too. I would take the shot if I really wanted the deer from a ground blind.

#3 Male OFFLINE   BowhunterNJ

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Posted 01/02/14 - 08:06 PM

With a crossbow, I'm honestly not sure.  BTE and I were talking about the amount of kinetic energy a crossbow delivers and how some guys actually aim for the shoulders on broadside shots to slow the arrow down so they can recover it.  Shooting behind the shoulder results in a pass through and the arrow going quite far beyond the deer, making it hard to find them.  I would think head on is a low percentage shot, but a crossbow certainly offers more energy and a great chance of accuracy, certainly if you hit them dead center, you're going to get plenty of penetration…and probably just going to obliterate the internals leaving you with a mess from front to back.  For the sake of cleaner kills and cleaner meat, I'd probably wait for something broadside! :)



#4 Male OFFLINE   BHC

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Posted 01/02/14 - 08:10 PM

I wouldn't take such a shot


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#5 Male OFFLINE   nycredneck

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Posted 01/02/14 - 08:18 PM

I have taken a quarter head on with my 75#  bow and over 500 grain arrow once on a doe and punched into chest cavity and struck the heart. It is not a shot I intend to do again, but it worked with devastating results dropping the deer instantly.

I had a 125 grain Thunderhead with a 50 grain insert on the end of that arrow.


Edited by nycredneck, 01/02/14 - 08:20 PM.

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#6 Male OFFLINE   Axiom

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Posted 01/02/14 - 08:37 PM

I dont have the most powerfull Cross bow ( 175lb draw weight ) so i dont see it penetrating to the point where i'll get alot, if any, gut.. But should easily punch a hole in the heart.. Maybe i'm wrong i dunno.. Every deer i've taken with it so far was downed with them standing broad side with one slightly quarter too... Allways recovered the arrow laying on the ground 10- 20 feet from where it exited... Again the is something i'm contemplating from ground level... Not 20 feet up.. As of right now i dont see why i shouldnt take a shot like that at less than 20 yards... 


:D


#7 Male OFFLINE   hunterbob1

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Posted 01/02/14 - 10:05 PM

 

 Any one ever take a shot like that and get good results?..

I have 100%


Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president. Theodore Roosevelt

#8 Male OFFLINE   Axiom

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Posted 01/02/14 - 11:18 PM

I have 100%

 

 

 

Ok, i'll take your word for it bob.. :pepsi:  :smoking:


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#9 Male OFFLINE   BowTechExperience

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Posted 01/03/14 - 12:27 AM

If you are using the stock arrows that came with your crossbow from Excalibur then you are roughly generation 72ft lbs of energy. If taking that straight on shot, you will most likely scramble the insides beyond the heart, especially at or under 20 yards. Think about it this way, if you place the arrow exactly between both front legs and do not hit or glance off one of them, the arrow has very little resistance and also the consistency of the internals will only aid in penetration because of the fluids on the inside. Should you take the shot, that is up to you to decide. It's not a low percentage shot just a messy one to clean out.
 
Many years ago I shot a buck in his "O" ring as he stood facing directly away from me. I was a lot younger than I am now and just wanted to finally score on a buck. I took the shot, hit him exactly in the "O" he hunch up and kinda side skipped away 40 yards or so and lay down. I watched him die where he lay from my tree stand. When I walked up to him my broad head and about 9" of arrow was hanging out his brisket. However when I cut him open his guts were torn apart from the broad head. not a pleasant task...
 
It is up to you

Edited by BowTechExperience, 01/03/14 - 12:28 AM.


#10 Male OFFLINE   nycredneck

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Posted 01/03/14 - 12:34 AM

When I shot mine I was in a treestand shooting down,  the arrow went into the brisket, through the heart and came out the bottom behind the the right front leg. From a blind you would get totally different results


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#11 Male OFFLINE   hunterbob1

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Posted 01/03/14 - 12:34 AM

 

Think about it this way

Your dead!


Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president. Theodore Roosevelt

#12 Male OFFLINE   Axiom

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Posted 01/03/14 - 06:09 AM

I think i'll give it a try..  If it rips up the guts to much i can always feed it to my pooch... :cupcoffee:


:D


#13 Male OFFLINE   Matty

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Posted 01/03/14 - 11:32 AM

I can't recommend that shot to anyone with a bow, crossbow, compound or otherwise. The margin for error is slim, and chances of an unrecovered deer is too great. You're only likely to have an entry hole, which could leave a very poor blood trail, there is also a lot of heavy bone in your way.

 

Sure it will work out sometimes, but it's not an ethical choice in my opinion. Patience....

 

If you don't have a broadside or quartering away shot, just wait until you do. If it doesn't present itself, let it walk. 

 

 

 

The brisket is composed of a thick bone (sternum). The sternum is where the front of the ribs connect. It is thick to protect the heart and lungs. There is only a very small opening in this end of the funnel where the esophagus (carries food) and the trachea (carries air) and the jugular veins, and the carotid arteries enter and leave the chest.

A shotgun slug can break the sternum and the ribs. With an arrow, it is possible to break the sternum and the ribs, but look again at the carcass. The sternum slopes downward. The shape could allow the sternum to change the direction of a fast, heavy arrow with a sharp broadhead

 

 

 

Now look at the ribs. They form the conical shape of the chest and also could channel an arrow away from the vitals. So, God did a great job in making the brisket and ribs shaped in a way to protect their vital cargo from hazards when the animal is moving forward or facing forward. An arrow that deflects off the sternum or ribs might appear to be a “pass-through” when it really did only minimum damage to the skin, or possibly the muscle between the shoulder blade and the ribs.

Fortunately, this shape works to our advantage when shooting at a quartering-away deer. If we get an arrow inside the rib cage, the shape of the ribs will channel the arrow into the heart and lungs. The sternum might stop our arrow, but the lethal damage has already been done before the blade strikes the sternum

 


Edited by Matty, 01/03/14 - 12:01 PM.

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“I have always tempered my killing with respect for the game pursued. I see the animal not only as a target, but as a living creature with more freedom than I will ever have. I take that life if I can, with regret as well as joy, and with the sure knowledge that nature’s way of fang and claw and starvation are a far crueler fate than I bestow.” – Fred Bear


#14 Male OFFLINE   PV216

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Posted 01/03/14 - 01:40 PM

I passed on the biggest buck I've ever seen while on stand because he was facing me straight on. It was very hard to pass a 20 yard shot. I kept telling myself I can drive that arrow right threw his chest and hit vitals or maybe clip the throat. But I just felt I owed it to the animal to not take an unethical shot and possibly would or make him suffer. I still relive this hunt in my head and wonder if I should have shot but in the end I still think I made the right choice. IMO you don't take those shots with a bow. The buck was killed later that year and scored just under the 150 mark. I'll never forget the encounter I had with him tho.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

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#15 Male OFFLINE   Axiom

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Posted 01/03/14 - 02:06 PM

Seems those who have actually taken the shot think its a killer and those who havent think its unethical and doubt its effective.... Interesting.. :cupcoffee:

 

And bowtech i seriously doubt i'll ever consider shooting one in its " "O" ring".. That just doesnt seem right, man... :rofl:


Edited by Axiom, 01/03/14 - 02:08 PM.

:D


#16 Male OFFLINE   Matty

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Posted 01/03/14 - 02:47 PM

See that's where you'd be wrong Axiom. I never said I've never taken that shot.

 

I have in fact on three occasions. Now being older, wiser and more experienced in bowhunting, I would never even consider it again out of respect for the animal.

 

First time I took the shot, I killed a nice 8 pointer a long time ago at about 47 yards with a head on shot. Died in sight after running about 30 yards, but I got a combination of heart, lung and liver. I'd never do it again.

 

I've also lost two does on frontal shots that looked good, but must have deflected on the sternum.

 

Trust me, it works out some times, but it's a low percentage shot. There is only a very small hole to aim for and most people don't even realize where that hole is. The heavy bone shielding the vitals and the angle at which they can deflect an arrow makes it a poor choice for bowhunters. If you want to slug one with a gun....be my guest, it's a dead deer, but with a bow....Definitely unethical and I regret ever having taken the shot in the past.

 

Do what you want, but you've already lost a few deer this year on higher percentage shots right? Makes you feel like spit right? I'd highly recommend against it. Look at how things can go wrong even when a deer is broadside or quartering away, why increase the odds of non-recovery with poor shot choices?

 

 

 

 

Kudos to PV216 for passing the shot. You made the right choice. Imagine how busted up you'd feel if you did take the shot and it ended in non-recovery of that magnificent beast? You'd feel like spit for a looooooooong time. Good call!  :up:


Edited by Matty, 01/03/14 - 02:54 PM.
kudos to PV

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“I have always tempered my killing with respect for the game pursued. I see the animal not only as a target, but as a living creature with more freedom than I will ever have. I take that life if I can, with regret as well as joy, and with the sure knowledge that nature’s way of fang and claw and starvation are a far crueler fate than I bestow.” – Fred Bear


#17 Male OFFLINE   Axiom

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Posted 01/03/14 - 06:03 PM

 

but you've already lost a few deer this year on higher percentage shots right?

 

well, only 2.. and the only 2 i've ever lost.. both does... But whether or not the shots were taken at high percentage areas wouldnt have mattered.. The first loss was because i didnt properly break in a new string i had just put on my x-bow.. The string was still stretching and caused an error in my scope calibration... The second was because the deer moved on release..   Bad hits and lost game as a result of those two situations is a probable no matter where your intended  target area is.... I hear you with regards to the sternum and do believe and arrow wouldnt go exactly where you hoped it would if it contacts it.. But, from what i can tell,  the sternum sits pretty low on the body and is rather apparent, a hit right above it looks like it would sever a bunch of Blood vessels, pop a lung or 2 and put a hole in the liver.. Some say you can add guts to that list..  I cant see anything going to far with that kind of wound.. Granted you did lose one but, like you said it was deflected and so probably didnt slice much that mattered...


:D


#18 OFFLINE   BowhuntingJersey

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Posted 01/03/14 - 08:37 PM

PV216 that buck didn't even make the 140 mark!! Still great deer!!

#19 Male OFFLINE   PV216

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Posted 01/04/14 - 07:47 AM

I was told it scored high 140's. Guess I got bad info. Sure looked 140 at 20 yards.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

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#20 Male OFFLINE   Hatchet

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Posted 01/04/14 - 09:23 AM

I remember a thread o Njh a few years ago where the guy actually was successful in killing the buck with this same type of shot but boy did he take a beating. Lot of bow hunters think this is unethical cause it's a low % shot. It's a shot I wouldn't take with a bow but that's just me.
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