Anyone on the Bitcoin train?

[newjerseyhunter]

Yes, it was.  Fascinating story, I have followed it since before it was busted.  That also had "dark web" implications too.  People thought you could be anonymous on the dark web, but that was blow out of the water with this as well as many other sites being taken down by the Feds.

Silk Road was taken down because the person who originally registered the site didn't use a "clean email", if I recall correctly.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Silk Road was taken down because the person who originally registered the site didn't use a "clean email", if I recall correctly.

 

Maybe, but the story I followed said the Feds found the originating IP address of the server.  Once there, they found an ACL (access control list, something you create to technically control access to a server over a network) that allows access to the server from one other IP address--a coffee shop in San Francisco.  They waited for the server administrator to log into the server and busted him at the coffee shop.  That's loosely how I heard it go down.  Was real interesting, though.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Government doesn't need to "shut it down", a government would just have to declare it illegal. 

 

Declare it not legal tender, and it's value plummets.   Then all you have is a currency for illicit goods.    It really is that simple.

What?  No!  Declare it illegal and the value skyrockets.  Black market items always cost more than their legal alternatives.

 

You would need the world governments to all, in unison, declare it illegal in order for that to work.  They never agree on anything, so I don't think it'll ever happen.

[newjerseyhunter]

Government doesn't need to "shut it down", a government would just have to declare it illegal. 

 

Declare it not legal tender, and it's value plummets.   Then all you have is a currency for illicit goods.    It really is that simple.

You need to do more googling, I'm surprised your googlefu is usually strong and you like us all to think that you know everything but apparently you do not know jack about bitcoin. If you did you would have jumped on this thread and immediately started bragging about how you knew btc was going to explode, so you bought it in '09, and now you are a millionaire, blah blah blah. ☺

 

How did China's actions on BTC affect the value? This can easily get away from governments. It already has in some respects.

[buckhound]

isn't it kind of like a ponzi scheme ??? i hear about it but doesn't make sense to me.....

[Haskell_Hunter]

You need to do more googling, I'm surprised your googlefu is usually strong and you like us all to think that you know everything but apparently you do not know jack about bitcoin. If you did you would have jumped on this thread and immediately started bragging about how you knew btc was going to explode, so you bought it in '09, and now you are a millionaire, blah blah blah. ☺

 

How did China's actions on BTC affect the value? This can easily get away from governments. It already has in some respects.

 

Bitcoin is making living in Venezuela a little better.  They've subverted the government and use Bitcoins to pay for stuff that is then sent to them from overseas.  So it's already being used by the people in extremely oppressive regimes.

 

http://reason.com/archives/2016/11/28/the-secret-dangerous-world-of

[BenedictGomez]

What?  No!  Declare it illegal and the value skyrockets.  Black market items always cost more than their legal alternatives.

 

You would need the world governments to all, in unison, declare it illegal in order for that to work.  They never agree on anything, so I don't think it'll ever happen.

 

It's not a good, it's a currency.

 

As I said, it would have residual value even if declared illegal, but the value would drop, not skyrocket.    And you wouldn't need "all" the world governments declare it illegal, just the "right" ones. For instance, if America and the EU declared it illegal, Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency) value would be seriously impeded, to say the least.

[BenedictGomez]

You need to do more googling, I'm surprised your googlefu is usually strong and you like us all to think that you know everything but apparently you do not know jack about bitcoin. If you did you would have jumped on this thread and immediately started bragging about how you knew btc was going to explode, so you bought it in '09, and now you are a millionaire, blah blah blah. ☺

 

How did China's actions on BTC affect the value? This can easily get away from governments. It already has in some respects.

 

You're right, I don't know much about Bitcoin, but it's pretty obvious you don't know "jack" about global finance.

What I do know "enough" about are currency markets, government, and electronic trade processing to know it wouldn't be that hard to take this sucker down if they really wanted to.   Again, even if big governments banned it, it would admittedly have some residual value, but it would be an absolute shell of its' former self, and any current investors would lose much of what they put into it. 

[stratocaster]

I'm not sure why you think that.   In fact, one of the biggest threats to Bitcoin, is government. 

 

Bitcoin could easily be shut-down for the masses, through fairly simple government action, which would absolutely crater the value.  It could still be employed for illegal transactions and by criminals, but its' practical value at that point would be greatly diminished.

Too late to shut it down as it would seem very political and anti-competitive as an alternative to the Federal Reserve and the printing of currency.    I would love to see the logic behind a senator saying "this needs to be outlawed".

[Haskell_Hunter]

It's not a good, it's a currency.

 

As I said, it would have residual value even if declared illegal, but the value would drop, not skyrocket.    And you wouldn't need "all" the world governments declare it illegal, just the "right" ones. For instance, if America and the EU declared it illegal, Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency) value would be seriously impeded, to say the least.

 

No, it's a digital currency.

 

It's also a decentralized digital currency.  So it's neither a good nor a currency.  It's something completely different.  So all bets are off.

 

Any anything considered to have value can be used a currency:  gold, silver, people, sheep, water, food, you name it.  The government doesn't have to endorse it.

[newjerseyhunter]

You're right, I don't know much about Bitcoin, but it's pretty obvious you don't know "jack" about global finance.

What I do know "enough" about are currency markets, government, and electronic trade processing to know it wouldn't be that hard to take this sucker down if they really wanted to.   Again, even if big governments banned it, it would admittedly have some residual value, but it would be an absolute shell of its' former self, and any current investors would lose much of what they put into it. 

Ha, I guess I hit a nerve. What I know about global finance more than fills the void left by your knowledge of bitcoin, which is quite large. If you aren't too busy consulting Forex and DTCC maybe you can google BTC some more :-) 

 

But the fact of the matter is with all your knowledge of "global finance" you have no clue what may or may not happen with bitcoin, regardless of whether governments try to shut it down. I'm not sure why you even feel confident enough to proffer an opinion considering your, self admitted, lack of knowledge concerning bitcoin. Hell, many folks much smarter than you have been "predicting" bitcoins demise for years. It's why I don't listen to them, they have been wrong for 8 years, consistently. Even if Bitcoin fails at this point the fact that so many of them were so wrong about so many things for so long makes you wonder why anyone even listens to these fools. That is a topic for another post though.

 

The horse has left the barn and it is unlikely it can be returned. Even if governments "take this sucker down" other cryptos, that would be much harder to eradicate, could take its place. 

[Haskell_Hunter]

Silk Road was taken down because the person who originally registered the site didn't use a "clean email", if I recall correctly.

 

Brain fart, yes, this was also a piece of evidence they used to implicate the "who" part of it.  In order to find the "who" was accessing the server as the administrator, they scrubbed the internet for an email address used on a few forums posts, and then extrapolated who that real person was.  Then they waited for him at the cafe to arrest him.

 

Long day, low wattage...

[BenedictGomez]

 

Any anything considered to have value can be used a currency:  gold, silver, people, sheep, water, food, you name it.  The government doesn't have to endorse it.

 

Of course not, but the government could crush it anytime it wanted.  I don't think this is widely understood, but it really would be incredibly simple.  Currently, Bitcoin is silly small potatoes in terms of net global currency transactions, so it's basically completely irrelevant and not a target.  But what if that changes?    What if Bitcoin, or Nextcoin, begins to achieve some scale?  Or, far more likely, what if large reserve currency governments (like we are) have seen enough and decide to nip this thing in the bud?

 

Ha, I guess I hit a nerve. 

 

Actually, it would appear the only poster in this thread getting emotional is you, lashing out at anyone who comments negatively about Bitcoin - so the never touched is your own.  Maybe you're emotional because you bought some & have a horse in this race.

 

Too late to shut it down as it would seem very political and anti-competitive as an alternative to the Federal Reserve and the printing of currency.   

 

Too late?   This thing's in its' infancy, it's roughly a decade old.  And there already are a handful of governments who have banned it, though they're inconsequential in size.  Plus you have others who are "monitoring" it, which, call me cynical, but doesn't sound auspicious.

[newjerseyhunter]

Actually, it would appear the only poster in this thread getting emotional is you, lashing out at anyone who comments negatively about Bitcoin - so the never touched is your own.  Maybe you're emotional because you bought some & have a horse in this race.

The only emotion I could possibly have is happiness as the btc I do own was bought at such a low price I can't possibly lose money. I'm not sure why that would cause me to "lash out". I simply offer a different perspective to the ill informed re bitcoin.

 

That being said I think my knowledge of banking and finance allow me to see all the issues with our current system. Am I rooting for cryptos, you bet. If you cant figure out why, I feel for ya.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Of course not, but the government could crush it anytime it wanted.  I don't think this is widely understood, but it really would be incredibly simple.  Currently, Bitcoin is silly small potatoes in terms of net global currency transactions, so it's basically completely irrelevant and not a target.  But what if that changes?    What if Bitcoin, or Nextcoin, begins to achieve some scale?  Or, far more likely, what if large reserve currency governments (like we are) have seen enough and decide to nip this thing in the bud?

 

 

Kind of like banning drugs.  Or prostitution.  Or the trade in human organs.  Human trafficking.

 

All of those trades are widely occurring with significant government bans.

 

Trying to ban a decentralized, global and virtual commodity is impossible.  You would need the cooperation of every entity on the Internet to achieve that.  It is an impossible task.  There is absolute no way to do it.  You have the same chance of removing all of the porn on the Internet as you do of stopping virtual currencies.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Haskell_Hunter