Cops called on me

[stratocaster]

You were in Their Spot In my township there is open land according to Township Firearms. allowed map but hear hunters get harassed by local Cops and public works guys who hunt those areas.    

B-cause M-boro cops are bored and don't have any real crime to stop.   

[mazzgolf]

Firearms ID card?  You are not required to carry that when in possession of a firearm.  That is the law in NJ.  It used to say possess but they were forced to remove it by the courts.  I never carry mine unless I am going to buy ammo or a firearm so they are not allowed to ask you for it.  

 

You need to read the laws, and read them CAREFULLY!

 

You are correct that you are not required to carry the FID when in possession of a firearm BUT THIS IS TRUE ONLY DURING CERTAIN SITUATIONS! Read the statutes and the attorney general guidelines I posted earlier. If hunting, you must go DIRECTLY TO and FROM your home to hunting grounds. You cannot make unreasonable deviations. What GG did was illegal in the state of NJ had he NOT have an FID card - what he did was he drove to his jobsite from hunting - that is against the law (assuming his job does not allow him to carry the firearm for his job). You must go directly home or directly to the hunting grounds. (yes, there are some outliers - e.g. the attorney general guidelines appear to give the police some leeway if you stopped for gas or used a restroom along the way).

 

If you never carry your FID, and you make an "unreasonable deviation" while driving to/from hunting, be prepared to answer some questions - read the attorney guidelines for the questions the police will ask you - "where have you been, how long were you there, what is your destination, what stops did you make along the way..." And if they determine you took an "unreasonable" circuitous route, you will be in trouble.

 

Do not be naive in thinking you can just drive wherever you want with a firearm in your car when you do not have an FID in your possession.

[BowhunterNJ]

The odd part about all this is an FID is a "Firearms Purchaser Identification Card". Pretty misleading if it's required to transport firearms in a vehicle, even with deviation.

 

I feel like the NJSP should clearly state that in their FAQ since this is asked all the time:

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml

 

Item 6 talks about transport and should include the verbiage that an FID is required (if it truly is)

 

6. How do you transport firearms?

 

Firearms shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported.

Ammunition must be transported in a separate container and locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

 

Also interesting to me is Item 9 talking about inheritance:

If I read that correctly, even for a handgun, you do not need any type of FID or handgun permit to inherit a gun legally, as long as you are legally permitted to own it (i.e. not a felon?).

However, if you do it before death, then you have to go through the process with the FID and handgun permit (and dealer transfer)?

 

If I inherit a firearm what must I do?

 

Pursuant to N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3j, a firearm purchaser identification card and/or a handgun purchase permit shall not be required for the passing of a firearm upon the death of an owner thereof to his/her heir or legatee, whether the same by testamentary bequest or by the laws of intestacy. The firearm must be legal to possess in New Jersey and the person receiving the firearm shall not be prohibited by N.J.S.A. 2C:58-3c before receiving the firearm. If the heir or legatee does not qualify to acquire and possess the firearm, then ownership may be retained for a period not to exceed 180 days provided the firearm is transferred to the chief law enforcement officer of the municipality or the superintendent during such period.

[Haskell_Hunter]

Firearms ID card?  You are not required to carry that when in possession of a firearm.  That is the law in NJ.  It used to say possess but they were forced to remove it by the courts.  I never carry mine unless I am going to buy ammo or a firearm so they are not allowed to ask you for it.  

 

My pistol instructor got pulled over with 24 pistols in his car.  All being transported legally.  The LEO was surprised that he was carrying that many, called it in, and dispatch told him to confiscate them.  My instructor told him that the only way he was confiscating them was if he was arrested, otherwise there was not legal reason for the LEO to take them.  The supervisor was called to the scene and they all had a reasonable conversation about it.  Long story short, my instructor was allowed to leave with his pistols and go on his way.  My instructor also trains LE, and that may have come up in conversation.  But things like this happen.

 

So rather than assume how the law should work, I'm a little paranoid.  So I carry my FID card at all times, so I don't have to worry about going to the range or hunting and getting stopped.  NJ laws are here to work against you, not with you.

[gregtpal]

So if some one has 2 slugs in a Savage 220 clip in the back of a pickup, that is a violation???

[Haskell_Hunter]

So if some one has 2 slugs in a Savage 220 clip in the back of a pickup, that is a violation???

 

Yes.  That is considered a loaded weapon.

 

Remove all ammo from the weapon and all magazines prior to transportation.  One round in the magazine, even if it is in another part of the vehicle in a locked container, is considered a loaded weapon.

 

I learned this from my pistol instructor.  Me and other student opened up our pistol cases and had loaded magazines.  He freaked out and told us we were felons.  That was a wake-up call.

[mazzgolf]

The odd part about all this is an FID is a "Firearms Purchaser Identification Card". Pretty misleading if it's required to transport firearms in a vehicle, even with deviation.

 

The name is misleading - perhaps a holdover from when the card was initially established in the law many moons ago. I dunno. But for sure, you need it to possess:

 

2C:39-5: (c.) Rifles and shotguns.  (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

So it is clearly more than just a card you use to purchase.

 

(before people chime in - yes, you do not need the FID when transporting and possessing under certain exceptions - but that is why they call them exceptions - you are excepted from having an FID *if* you are doing certain things, like... going directly to/from hunting).

 

But the point is, 2C:39-5(c.) makes it clear the FID is more than just a card used for purchasing - also used for determining legal possession as well.

[BowhunterNJ]

The name is misleading - perhaps a holdover from when the card was initially established in the law many moons ago. I dunno. But for sure, you need it to possess:

 

 

So it is clearly more than just a card you use to purchase.

 

(before people chime in - yes, you do not need the FID when transporting and possessing under certain exceptions - but that is why they call them exceptions - you are excepted from having an FID *if* you are doing certain things, like... going directly to/from hunting).

 

But the point is, 2C:39-5(c.) makes it clear the FID is more than just a card used for purchasing - also used for determining legal possession as well.

 

Good excerpt. You are in possession when transporting, so yeah that reads pretty clearly you need to prove you have an FID in order to prove legal possession.

What's interesting about that is, say you only inherited firearms...never had an FID, then you could never transport them other than to go hunting or moving (really the only exceptions I'm aware of)?

Is recreational shooting an exception?

 

I agree with what HH said above "NJ laws are here to work against you, not with you."

[stratocaster]

My pistol instructor got pulled over with 24 pistols in his car.  All being transported legally.  The LEO was surprised that he was carrying that many, called it in, and dispatch told him to confiscate them.  My instructor told him that the only way he was confiscating them was if he was arrested, otherwise there was not legal reason for the LEO to take them.  The supervisor was called to the scene and they all had a reasonable conversation about it.  Long story short, my instructor was allowed to leave with his pistols and go on his way.  My instructor also trains LE, and that may have come up in conversation.  But things like this happen.

 

So rather than assume how the law should work, I'm a little paranoid.  So I carry my FID card at all times, so I don't have to worry about going to the range or hunting and getting stopped.  NJ laws are here to work against you, not with you.

Agreed, in the communist state of NJ you are guilty until proven innocent, because the majority of LEO don't wish to fight crime but put a notch on their resume.   Aside from anecdotal experiences,  any time I was asked by LEO to see "what was in the trunk" , hasn't happened often but it has happened, I asked to see the warrant.  I simply cite the 4th amendment and we take it from there.  

[BowhunterNJ]

any time I was asked by LEO to see "what was in the trunk" , hasn't happened often but it has happened, I asked to see the warrant.  I simply cite the 4th amendment and we take it from there.

Where has it gone from there? They just say nevermind and let you go on your way?

[Haskell_Hunter]

Good excerpt. You are in possession when transporting, so yeah that reads pretty clearly you need to prove you have an FID in order to prove legal possession.

What's interesting about that is, say you only inherited firearms...never had an FID, then you could never transport them other than to go hunting or moving (really the only exceptions I'm aware of)?

Is recreational shooting an exception?

 

I agree with what HH said above "NJ laws are here to work against you, not with you."

 

What you quoted from the NJ State Police site is correct.  There is a thread somewhere on this site where I said it was misleading; I probably said it was wrong.  But a site member took the time to lead me through why it is correct.

 

The NJ State Police site cites federal firearm transportation laws.  And they are correct for transportation through the state of NJ, and any other state for that matter.  People from out of state obviously wouldn't have a NJ FID card, so they (in theory) won't have a problem.

[gregtpal]

Yes.  That is considered a loaded weapon.

 

Remove all ammo from the weapon and all magazines prior to transportation.  One round in the magazine, even if it is in another part of the vehicle in a locked container, is considered a loaded weapon.

 

I learned this from my pistol instructor.  Me and other student opened up our pistol cases and had loaded magazines.  He freaked out and told us we were felons.  That was a wake-up call.

What an ahole state we live in....any chance he misinterpreted?

[BowhunterNJ]

The NJ State Police site cites federal firearm transportation laws.  And they are correct for transportation through the state of NJ, and any other state for that matter.  People from out of state obviously wouldn't have a NJ FID card, so they (in theory) won't have a problem.

So correct through the state of NJ, but just not for NJ residents where an NJ FID would be required to prove your possession is legal. For a non-resident, obviously you wouldn't have an NJ FID, yet you would be in possession but still legal.

[BowhunterNJ]

What an ahole state we live in....any chance he misinterpreted?

No I've heard this too. I was ready to pre-load my mags for my AR and transport them to the range (trying to save time since Fort Dix Range 14 is timed shooting sessions) and remember it coming up that it's considered a loaded firearm if a magazine is loaded during transport, even if they are locked and separate.

[Nomad]

It all depends on who you ask.  Nobody knows what you can or can't do.  It's all open to interpretation.  The judge has the final say and that depends upon whether or not they are pro or anti gun. lol

Edited December 6, 2017 by Nomad