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H.R.38 - Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017


41 replies to this topic

#1 Male OFFLINE   Cyanide02Z06

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Posted 11/30/17 - 08:41 AM

Passed the committee yesterday, now we wait for Paul Ryan to put it up for a vote in Congress.

 

Full text of bill attached:

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Edited by Cyanide02Z06, 11/30/17 - 08:41 AM.


#2 Male OFFLINE   sicrado

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Posted 11/30/17 - 08:56 AM

Does this have any traction?


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#3 OFFLINE   GhostBear

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Posted 11/30/17 - 09:02 AM

Interesting read, it the first paragraph it state that a resident CCW holder, that says to me it will render non res cards moot. So We as NJ commoners are still without rights, next it says further down under " documentation" that there would be a federal card for CCW, will that then supersede the state? If so, then that's the only way we as law abiding citizens will be allowed to carry here.
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#4 Male OFFLINE   Bucksnbows

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Posted 11/30/17 - 09:07 AM

Interesting read, it the first paragraph it state that a resident CCW holder, that says to me it will render non res cards moot. So We as NJ commoners are still without rights, next it says further down under " documentation" that there would be a federal card for CCW, will that then supersede the state? If so, then that's the only way we as law abiding citizens will be allowed to carry here.

 

I'm personally not sure of the minute details, but I very strongly fall on the state's rights side of the equation.  However, in this case, our state and a few others are too stupid to be allowed to cut law abiding citizens off from concealed carry and I support any federal effort that would change that.  But normally, I would not want to see Big Government (feds) take over the rights that states should give out.  This is clearly an exception that all legal gun owners should push for.   


Edited by Bucksnbows, 11/30/17 - 09:08 AM.

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#5 OFFLINE   GhostBear

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Posted 11/30/17 - 09:17 AM

Well I still don't know why Nj's justifiable need clause wasn't challenged yet? Even that crap hole CA ruled II unconstitutional, yet here we are still having to prove a vague "need" to exercise a federally protected RIGHT!! Lol, it a ban plain and simple.
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#6 Male OFFLINE   stratocaster

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Posted 11/30/17 - 10:11 AM

I'm personally not sure of the minute details, but I very strongly fall on the state's rights side of the equation.  However, in this case, our state and a few others are too stupid to be allowed to cut law abiding citizens off from concealed carry and I support any federal effort that would change that.  But normally, I would not want to see Big Government (feds) take over the rights that states should give out.  This is clearly an exception that all legal gun owners should push for.   

You are arguing for and against states rights at the same time.  The purpose of the federal gov't is to enforce the law of the land which is the constitution.  If NJ democrats had their way,  all guns would be registered, we would have to take out insurance, pay a yearly ownership fee etc...the only way to control a rogue state like NJ is the federal gov't and SCOTUS. 

 

 The same point can be argued about the out of control EPA which has no constitutional authority but uses the power they were given by congress to tyranically control what a person can do with their own land That's why small and limited gov't is the only and best way to ensure liberty for all.   A lot of people make money from more complex regulations and an uninformed public doesn't understand how damaging it is to freedom until they experience it themselves and then it's too late. 99% of people don't even know how many amendments there are in the Bill of Rights or what they are. 

The only way to stop this BS is through SCOTUS and a strict interpretation of the constitution. 



#7 OFFLINE   GhostBear

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Posted 11/30/17 - 10:25 AM

Doesn't matter anyway,, it'll never get out of the house, they need 60 votes to pass it, repubs hold only 52 seats, and you know as well as I do this will run down party lines, that's how it got out of comity. 19-11.
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#8 Male OFFLINE   VAPPAC

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Posted 11/30/17 - 12:35 PM

 

to provide a means by which nonresidents of a State whose residents may carry concealed firearms may also do so in the State.

That is then opening line intending to describe the bill.

 

We still would not be able to carry here in NJ because the residents here do not have the privilege of doing so.

This would make no change for those of us that live here and want to carry.

 

Taking it further - I still do not think it allows "non-residents" to carry here legally, because NJ residents are not allowed to. Unless I am missing something - I am not getting my hopes up at all, as I do not think this will change things one bit.


Edited by VAPPAC, 11/30/17 - 12:36 PM.


#9 Male OFFLINE   Haskell_Hunter

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Posted 11/30/17 - 01:26 PM

Interesting read, it the first paragraph it state that a resident CCW holder, that says to me it will render non res cards moot. So We as NJ commoners are still without rights, next it says further down under " documentation" that there would be a federal card for CCW, will that then supersede the state? If so, then that's the only way we as law abiding citizens will be allowed to carry here.

 

 

That is then opening line intending to describe the bill.

 

We still would not be able to carry here in NJ because the residents here do not have the privilege of doing so.

This would make no change for those of us that live here and want to carry.

 

Taking it further - I still do not think it allows "non-residents" to carry here legally, because NJ residents are not allowed to. Unless I am missing something - I am not getting my hopes up at all, as I do not think this will change things one bit.

 

 

It does allow non-resident permit holders to carry within their own states.  The NJ2AS went to Washington to discuss this with bill sponsors.  They got the wording changed to do just that.  It's one of the reasons why I got UT, FL, and NH non-resident permits.  When this passes, I can carry in NJ.


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#10 Male OFFLINE   newjerseyhunter

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Posted 11/30/17 - 01:26 PM

I'm personally not sure of the minute details, but I very strongly fall on the state's rights side of the equation.  However, in this case, our state and a few others are too stupid to be allowed to cut law abiding citizens off from concealed carry and I support any federal effort that would change that.  But normally, I would not want to see Big Government (feds) take over the rights that states should give out.  This is clearly an exception that all legal gun owners should push for.   

 

I'm not sure I understand your analysis. How could this be a "state's rights" issue when it is a Constitutional issue at heart? States should not be able to come up with their own interpretation of any Constitutional Amendment. That should be dictated by the Federal Government and SCOTUS if necessary. 



#11 Male OFFLINE   Haskell_Hunter

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Posted 11/30/17 - 01:29 PM

From the text:

 

 

and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun

 

The "or" was added to accommodate non-resident carry permits to be used in your own state or others.


US citizens have constitutionally protected rights - but they're only paper protections if they can't be freely exercised.

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The right to revolt has sources deep in our history.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

 

Ideas are indeed the most dangerous weapons in the world. Our ideas of freedom are the most powerful political weapons man has ever forged.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas


#12 Male OFFLINE   Cyanide02Z06

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Posted 11/30/17 - 05:06 PM

If this passes and you have a non-resident concealed carry from another state, you would be able to carry in NJ.


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#13 OFFLINE   GhostBear

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Posted 11/30/17 - 05:07 PM

Oh boy, that'll be grounds for appeal, another states law superseding another's? Jersey does not issue, they also do not honor other states permits. Jersey will tie this up in the courts forever, even if it does see the light of day. Lol
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#14 Male OFFLINE   Haskell_Hunter

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Posted 11/30/17 - 06:22 PM

Oh boy, that'll be grounds for appeal, another states law superseding another's? Jersey does not issue, they also do not honor other states permits. Jersey will tie this up in the courts forever, even if it does see the light of day. Lol

 

NJ won't be able to stop it.  2A is federal jurisdiction.

 

The reason your driver's license is recognized by other states is due to CFR 49, a federal regulation.  This would also be a federal regulation and align perfectly with the powers given to the federal government.

 

Every blue state will try to fight this, but they're going to lose.  Whining is not a legal argument.


US citizens have constitutionally protected rights - but they're only paper protections if they can't be freely exercised.

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The right to revolt has sources deep in our history.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

 

Ideas are indeed the most dangerous weapons in the world. Our ideas of freedom are the most powerful political weapons man has ever forged.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas


#15 OFFLINE   GhostBear

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Posted 11/30/17 - 07:24 PM

2A is fed, but it's been left to the states to implement, I.e. Make it as easy or as difficult as they want. States rights still play, every state, even NJ has a mechanism for gaining a permit as is required, NJ is structured so that nearly none are granted but enough so as not to technically infringe, now the fed is coming in and saying yeah after 200 plus years we want you to do it this way? Still why force NJ to honor an out of state permit?, why not push for a national CCW permit, granted by the Feds? This will take it out of the states hands without any ambiguity. Or a measure stating these are the means by which all states will issue CCWs without exception. As I read the bill there is much the blue states can challenge, but it's a moot point since it'll never clear the house anyway.
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#16 Male OFFLINE   Shootemthenmountem

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Posted 11/30/17 - 07:50 PM

We can't carry in NJ? :nerd:



#17 Male OFFLINE   Tarhunt

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Posted 11/30/17 - 07:52 PM

I doubt that it will ever happen in NJ. I don't see Murphy allowing it.


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#18 OFFLINE   GhostBear

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Posted 11/30/17 - 08:10 PM

If it passes, that shitbag won't have a say in it since it would be a federal law, but the point is moot since they need 60 votes to get it out of the house and they don't have the numbers, it'll go right down party lines, and in the house repubs only hold 52 seats, to get out of committee it went right down the lines 19-11. Unless they get 8 Dems to go along should it even be brought up for vote, it ain't happening.
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#19 Male OFFLINE   mikejd

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Posted 11/30/17 - 08:19 PM

If it passes, that shitbag won't have a say in it since it would be a federal law, but the point is moot since they need 60 votes to get it out of the house and they don't have the numbers, it'll go right down party lines, and in the house repubs only hold 52 seats, to get out of committee it went right down the lines 19-11. Unless they get 8 Dems to go along should it even be brought up for vote, it ain't happening.

Right now the republicans hold 248 seats in the house with a 52 seat majority.



#20 Male OFFLINE   Haskell_Hunter

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Posted 11/30/17 - 09:19 PM

If it passes, that shitbag won't have a say in it since it would be a federal law, but the point is moot since they need 60 votes to get it out of the house and they don't have the numbers, it'll go right down party lines, and in the house repubs only hold 52 seats, to get out of committee it went right down the lines 19-11. Unless they get 8 Dems to go along should it even be brought up for vote, it ain't happening.

 

Oh, how you forget how they passed ObamaCare.  You can bet the GOP is going to stick it to the Dems, and they have just the tool available to them to do it.  All of the shit the Dems pulled on the GOP during the first two years of the Obama administration is coming back to haunt them.  I am very happy about it.


US citizens have constitutionally protected rights - but they're only paper protections if they can't be freely exercised.

--BBC News

 

The right to revolt has sources deep in our history.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

 

Ideas are indeed the most dangerous weapons in the world. Our ideas of freedom are the most powerful political weapons man has ever forged.

-- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas





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