QDM encouragement

[Zone35killer]

So I'm new to the website and wanted to post something that is very important to me and has really sculpted me into the hunter I am today. I have been a deer hunter since 2013 and a QDMA member since I started hunting. My first deer hunting experience was on the QDMA National youth hunt in 2013. If anyone doesn't know what QDMA is, it stands for " Quality Deer Management Association", a organization that has changed many anti-hunters hearts towards are beloved sport. Helped countless people of all ages (including myself) who wanted to join the sport of hunting, but had no clue where to start, and turned us into avid hunters, and life long sportsman of all sorts. Without slaughtering you guys with way too many words I'll get to my point. My post today is to encourage guys to check it out without jumping down anyone's throats, or seeming like QDM is the only way to hunt, it is not. The idea of QDM, is something most guys in the outdoor world are familiar with, but goes way farther than just the main principle, being, to let deer reach full maturity. Which is the age class of 4.5 years old or older. In a state with such high pressure and such little plots of land to hunt, or public, is it really worth it to let that 1.5 year old 5 point walk? You know your neighbor won't, or the guy whose hunting the next ridge over won't either. As hunters we find ourselves in this predicament all the time. I find myself in this same place almost every time I check cameras or am hunting. A lot of guys are very happy shooting young bucks, and that is great. I've shot young bucks before and they get your heart racing like 150 inch 10 point sometimes. The point of QDMA is not to avoid shooting young bucks, its to avoid shooting the majority of young bucks. I know how it feels to lose a great looking 1.5 year old 8 point to a neighbor, it feels pretty awful. "He could have been a giant in a few years", I've found myself saying this more than a few times. Is it wrong to feel this way? Yes and no, is it disappointing to know you'll never see him grow to full maturity yes, but it isn't right to be mad at someone who isn't at the same place as you with management. Who knows, if you're kind to other hunters and mention what you are trying to do with the deer (without pushing it down there throats) in a few years the same guy might be passing up every 2.5 year old buck he sees so they can make it till 3 years old. And in the end is one buck going ruin everything you are trying to do with your deer herd? Probably not, it's disappointing, but in no way is it a setback. It's just part of life. And who knows the deer might have been hit by a car or any other natural cause. And I know personally I'd rather see a hunter happy with a deer he shot, than to see a dead buck after a tractor trailer ran him over. hunters today we find ourselves in a strange place, a world full of anti-hunters and sportsman who don't respect the sport (most recent Chris Brackett), it's a shame, but as individual hunters we can shine our single ray of light, and be happy with the little things. Sorry I got side tracked there. So in conclusion, QDM is more than just letting deer grow, it's being friendly to a neighbor, or helping a guy who shot a deer on public land drag it out. So what I'm saying is it's not only about letting deer walk, sometimes the best way to improve big deer in your area is to be friendly to your neighbors, or to people in general. You will accomplish so much more with your actions than words. And I give a shoutout to all you guys out there who are true sportsman, we need more of you. So go check out QDMA, it's worth it. And I'm more than glad to answer any questions, I can't promise I can answer then, but I'll try me best. So this is my spiel for the day, hopefully it's helpful. And not too long and boring, or the grammar is too bad (hard to type on a tiny smart phone. Good hunting everyone!

[JHbowhunter]

Well written young man - looking forward to your future contributions.   Based on this, I am going to start passing up young bucks..   

[buckfever1974]

I get it but given the limited amount of time I have available, the value of the money I have to put into permits and the need to fill my freezer so I'm not running to the supermarket for chop meat each week, I limit what we shoot to what we need meat wise before I get picky.  Once there are a couple of deer in the freezer, I become more selective but until then, outside of fawns and anything I decide isn't worth the butchering fees, they are all fair game.  I don't have private land although I do try to make arrangements to get access to public via private property at times.  Lately we have been lucky on public land but there are times we don't see to many in a year so if I want venison in the freezer I have to do what I have to do.  

 

BTW.  I respect everything you have said and a lot of what I read on the site with guys passing up deer.  I just don't do to much passing until I know the family is set for a few months.  To each their own though.

Edited November 22, 2017 by buckfever1974

[Hunter115522]

Hunting means different things to different people. I encourage people to shoot whatever legal animal that makes them happy. A doe, button buck, spike, or 10 pointer.

[Zone35killer]

I get it but given the limited amount of time I have available, the value of the money I have to put into permits and the need to fill my freezer so I'm not running to the supermarket for chop meat each week, I limit what we shoot to what we need meat wise before I get picky.  Once there are a couple of deer in the freezer, I become more selective but until then, outside of fawns and anything I decide isn't worth the butchering fees, they are all fair game.  I don't have private land although I do try to make arrangements to get access to public via private property at times.  Lately we have been lucky on public land but there are times we don't see to many in a year so if I want venison in the freezer I have to do what I have to do.  

 

BTW.  I respect everything you have said and a lot of what I read on the site with guys passing up deer.  I just don't do to much passing until I know the family is set for a few months.  To each their own though.

I get meat hunting completely, and I'll never bash an ethical hunter for shooting any legal deer. I get where you are coming from, and I wish you the best of luck in hunting this year.

[Rusty]

Welcome 35killer.    

[John B]

I understand what your saying. Personally I'm a meat hunter. In practice, when the 6 day deer driving crews storm the WMAs, try talking to them about QDMA. Seriously don't, it might not end well.

[JerseyJaysTaxidermy]

I want my neighbors to pass up 1.5 yr old bucks and shoot 2.5 yr olds but they wont..

 

Jack wants me to pass up 2.5 year olds and shoot 3.5 year olds but I won't

 

Someone out there wants Jack to pass up 3.5 yr olds and shoot 4.5 year olds, but Jack lives next to a wma LOL

 

Never ending cycle.

 

My wall is full of nice bucks- many 1.5-2.5 year olds.. I'm at a point where i wouldn't mind passing a 2.5 year old IF (and a big if) I have better bucks showing up at my spot.

 

Location is everything. If your habitat is one that sucks in giants every year- then it's very easy to pass a younger buck.

But if your only spot isn't a home to these bigger deer, then it's hard to let everything go to grow and be shot by someone else who has access to the land where the bigger bucks hang most of their life.

 

I hunt spots that are so close to eachother I can walk from 1 to the other in under 10 mins.

2 different properties.. 1 has a ton of acorns and the other does not.

 

If I didn't have access to the 1 with acorns I would think there were no bucks over 1.5 around. They don't go to the other property even though they are nearly touching at parts.

 

I'm always telling people-let me hunt where you hunt and I'll pass up whatever age you wish, because if you hunted some spots I hunt you would pass up everything and never shoot a good buck.

 

Some habitat is home for small bucks, some is better for large bucks. Year after year the big bucks bachelor group in the same spots .. and the spikes group up in the same spots as the does.. if you hunt 1 spot you're golden.. the other offeres scrub bucks only for 99% of the season.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Haskell_Hunter]

Sorry, I am in a QDM zone in NJ and see a lot of forks.  There are very few bucks that are shooters.  Low harvest numbers in this zone (check out the historical harvest #'s the state produces).

 

QDM does not work.  I've been in a QDM zone for a decade.  Crap deer, crap shooters.

 

QDM needs to be implemented state-wide for it to be remotely successful, and I am extremely skeptical that it works at all.

 

It doesn't work in Zone 3.  It's complete bullshit, and as a hunter in this zone over 15,000 acres of forest, I know it's total crap.  Maybe your experiences are different, but mine are too.

 

If QDM worked, it would be implemented state-wide.  It's not.  It's a failure and the herd in zone three (check the statistics that the state publishes) is proof that it is an abject failure.

[JHbowhunter]

I want my neighbors to pass up 1.5 yr old bucks and shoot 2.5 yr olds but they wont..

 

Jack wants me to pass up 2.5 year olds and shoot 3.5 year olds but I won't

 

Someone out there wants Jack to pass up 3.5 yr olds and shoot 4.5 year olds, but Jack lives next to a wma LOL

 

Never ending cycle.

 

My wall is full of nice bucks- many 1.5-2.5 year olds.. I'm at a point where i wouldn't mind passing a 2.5 year old IF (and a big if) I have better bucks showing up at my spot.

 

Location is everything. If your habitat is one that sucks in giants every year- then it's very easy to pass a younger buck.

But if your only spot isn't a home to these bigger deer, then it's hard to let everything go to grow and be shot by someone else who has access to the land where the bigger bucks hang most of their life.

 

I hunt spots that are so close to eachother I can walk from 1 to the other in under 10 mins.

2 different properties.. 1 has a ton of acorns and the other does not.

 

If I didn't have access to the 1 with acorns I would think there were no bucks over 1.5 around. They don't go to the other property even though they are nearly touching at parts.

 

I'm always telling people-let me hunt where you hunt and I'll pass up whatever age you wish, because if you hunted some spots I hunt you would pass up everything and never shoot a good buck.

 

Some habitat is home for small bucks, some is better for large bucks. Year after year the big bucks bachelor group in the same spots .. and the spikes group up in the same spots as the does.. if you hunt 1 spot you're golden.. the other offeres scrub bucks only for 99% of the season.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

Jay you didn't get the memo - we are passing 3.5 year olds now.....  (and everything younger)

[Lunatic]

I am mainly a meat hunter but during the rut I do try to get a buck. The only reason I let young bucks walk, and I do, is because places I hunt I know I can take my share of does for the freezer and I am not putting a Euro of a spike on my wall.

I wasn't always like this and I took my share of young bucks because it felt right to do so. Every hunter goes through changes and so did I.

AT the end, as I am sitting here and thinking about others taking your bucks, I feel every one is entitled to go through these stages and if you shoot a BB buck I will shake your hand and help you drag it out. How can it be wrong to shoot a BBuck if it makes you happy and satisfied with your harvest? It think in many instances, if not always, people who want others to let young bucks walk are not hoping you can get them at 4.5 YOA. They hope you let him walk so THEY can get him at 4.5 yo age  
I

[Screaminta]

I can understand having the need to fill the freezer. It's just me and the misses at my house and we can get by with 3 deer a year for the most part. My normal routine is to get a doe as early as possible, then hunt "bigger" bucks. With that said one particular spot of private land my friend and I hunt is a small piece surrounded by non-huntable land. The only other property nearby is a few miles away, or they can cross a major highway the cut across to it.

The last few years we have been more selective by only shooting "large" 6's or better, unless it has something goofy growing for horns, or just plain bad genetics. In just these three years we went from seeing maybe 1-2 "shooters" per year to several of a much better caliber each year. I find myself passing on deer that 3-4 years ago I would have never given a second thought. Also, I find that we have "learned" the deer better this way. Unfortunately though it hurts worse when we see one of "our" deer get taken by the someone on the property across the highway or better yet one of "ours" on the side of the road. I know I know we don't own them but we know the deer, and we learn them, and when the rut kicks up they wander. We also usually get other random wanderers that sometime surprise us. Just saying that I believe QDM can work if we're all on the same page. But that is probably damn near impossible state wide.

[JHbowhunter]

.... It think in many instances, if not always, people who want others to let young bucks walk are not hoping you can get them at 4.5 YOA. They hope you let him walk so THEY can get him at 4.5 yo age  

I

 

Thank you! FINALLY somebody gets it!!!!   And y'all please stay out of z5 while you at it...

Edited November 23, 2017 by JHbowhunter

[stratocaster]

Sorry if this is long but it's important to understand what we are discussing here. 

I understand the intent of the post and of QDM.  What a lot of hunters fail to understand is that whitetail deer in N America are broken into subspecies. So a whitetail isn't just a whitetail. The deer in NJ are odocoileus virginianus.  I understand that some bucks in NJ grow into big trophy bucks given age, genetics. Generally, if you want to hunt the biggest bucks then Jersey is not the place to be.  No matter how much QDM is practiced.  The genetics of our subspecies just don't allow for the antler growth that makes it possible for massive bucks to exist. The science does not support it.  Are a few big bucks of our subspecies taken? Yes.  But it's important not to fool your self into the thought process that just allowing them to grow to 3.5 - 6.5 will have monster bucks patrolling your woods. The following is a list of the subspecies of whitetail deer that roam north and south America.  If you are happy with the possibility (but low probability)of a 150 class buck in your hunting area then Jersey is ok.  But to expect it season after season is unrealistic.  If you practice QDM on your plot and only want to harvest the biggest buck on your plot then I totally commend you. Just know the odds. The bold type subspecies  are your best shot for a truly massive buck.  Happy hunting. 

• O. v. acapulcensis – Acapulco white-tailed deer (southern Mexico)
• O. v. borealis – northern (woodland) white-tailed deer (the largest and darkest white-tailed deer)
• O. v. carminis – Carmen Mountains Jorge deer (Texas-Mexico border)
• O. v. clavium – Key deer or Florida Keys white-tailed deer (found in the Florida Keys; an example of insular dwarfism)
• O. v. chiriquensis – Chiriqui white-tailed deer (Panama)
• O. v. couesi – Coues white-tailed deer, Arizona white-tailed deer, or fantail deer
• O. v. dakotensis – Dakota white-tailed deer or Northern Plains white-tailed deer (most northerly distribution, rivals the northern white-tailed deer in size)
• O. v. hiltonensis – Hilton Head Island white-tailed deer
• O. v. idahoensis – white-tailed deer (western Canada, Idaho, eastern Washington)^[8]
• O. v. leucurus – Columbian white-tailed deer (Oregon and western coastal area)
• O. v. macrourus – Kansas white-tailed deer
• O. v. mcilhennyi – Avery Island white-tailed deer
• O. v. mexicanus – Mexican white-tailed deer (central Mexico)
• O. v. miquihuanensis – Miquihuan white-tailed deer (central Mexico)
• O. v. nelsoni – Chiapas white-tailed deer (southern Mexico and Guatemala)
• O. v. nemoralis – (Central America, round the Gulf of Mexico to Surinam in South America; further restricted to from Honduras to Panama)
• O. v. nigribarbis – Blackbeard Island white-tailed deer
• O. v. oaxacensis – Oaxaca white-tailed deer (southern Mexico)
• O. v. ochrourus – (tawny) northwest white-tailed deer or northern Rocky Mountains white-tailed deer
• O. v. osceola – Florida coastal white-tailed deer
• O. v. rothschildi – Coiba Island white-tailed deer
• O. v. seminolus – Florida white-tailed deer
• O. v. sinaloae – Sinaloa white-tailed deer (mid-western Mexico)
• O. v. taurinsulae – Bulls Island white-tailed deer (Bulls Island, South Carolina)
• O. v. texanus – Texas white-tailed deer
• O. v. thomasi – Mexican lowland white-tailed deer
• O. v. toltecus – Rain Forest white-tailed deer (southern Mexico)
• O. v. truei – Central American white-tailed deer (Costa Rica, Nicaragua and adjacent states)
• O. v. venatorius – Hunting Island white-tailed deer (Hunting Island, South Carolina)
• O. v. veraecrucis – northern Veracruz white-tailed deer
• O. v. virginianus – Virginia white-tailed deer or southern white-tailed deer
• O. v. yucatanensis – Yucatán white-tailed deer

South America[edit]

• O. v. cariacou – (French Guiana and north Brazil)
• O. v. curassavicus – (Curaçao)
• O. v. goudotii – (Colombia (Andes) and west Venezuela)
• O. v. gymnotis – South American white-tailed deer (northern half of Venezuela, including Venezuela's Llanos region)
• O. v. margaritae – (Margarita Island)
• O. v. nemoralis – (Central America, round the Gulf of Mexico to Surinam in South America; further restricted to from Honduras to Panama)
• O. v. peruvianus – South American white-tailed deer or Andean white-tailed deer (most southerly distribution in Peru and possibly, Bolivia)
• O. v. tropicalis – Peru and Ecuador (possibly Colombia)
• O. v. ustus – Ecuador (possibly southern of Colombia and northern of Peru)

[Lunatic]

 

Sorry if this is long but it's important to understand what we are discussing here. 

I understand the intent of the post and of QDM.  What a lot of hunters fail to understand is that whitetail deer in N America are broken into subspecies. So a whitetail isn't just a whitetail. The deer in NJ are odocoileus virginianus.  I understand that some bucks in NJ grow into big trophy bucks given age, genetics. Generally, if you want to hunt the biggest bucks then Jersey is not the place to be.  No matter how much QDM is practiced.  The genetics of our subspecies just don't allow for the antler growth that makes it possible for massive bucks to exist. The science does not support it.  Are a few big bucks of our subspecies taken? Yes.  But it's important not to fool your self into the thought process that just allowing them to grow to 3.5 - 6.5 will have monster bucks patrolling your woods. The following is a list of the subspecies of whitetail deer that roam north and south America.  If you are happy with the possibility (but low probability)of a 150 class buck in your hunting area then Jersey is ok.  But to expect it season after season is unrealistic.  If you practice QDM on your plot and only want to harvest the biggest buck on your plot then I totally commend you. Just know the odds. The bold type subspecies  are your best shot for a truly massive buck.  Happy hunting. 

• O. v. acapulcensis – Acapulco white-tailed deer (southern Mexico)
• O. v. borealis – northern (woodland) white-tailed deer (the largest and darkest white-tailed deer)
• O. v. carminis – Carmen Mountains Jorge deer (Texas-Mexico border)
• O. v. clavium – Key deer or Florida Keys white-tailed deer (found in the Florida Keys; an example of insular dwarfism)
• O. v. chiriquensis – Chiriqui white-tailed deer (Panama)
• O. v. couesi – Coues white-tailed deer, Arizona white-tailed deer, or fantail deer
• O. v. dakotensis – Dakota white-tailed deer or Northern Plains white-tailed deer (most northerly distribution, rivals the northern white-tailed deer in size)
• O. v. hiltonensis – Hilton Head Island white-tailed deer
• O. v. idahoensis – white-tailed deer (western Canada, Idaho, eastern Washington)^[8]
• O. v. leucurus – Columbian white-tailed deer (Oregon and western coastal area)
• O. v. macrourus – Kansas white-tailed deer
• O. v. mcilhennyi – Avery Island white-tailed deer
• O. v. mexicanus – Mexican white-tailed deer (central Mexico)
• O. v. miquihuanensis – Miquihuan white-tailed deer (central Mexico)
• O. v. nelsoni – Chiapas white-tailed deer (southern Mexico and Guatemala)
• O. v. nemoralis – (Central America, round the Gulf of Mexico to Surinam in South America; further restricted to from Honduras to Panama)
• O. v. nigribarbis – Blackbeard Island white-tailed deer
• O. v. oaxacensis – Oaxaca white-tailed deer (southern Mexico)
• O. v. ochrourus – (tawny) northwest white-tailed deer or northern Rocky Mountains white-tailed deer
• O. v. osceola – Florida coastal white-tailed deer
• O. v. rothschildi – Coiba Island white-tailed deer
• O. v. seminolus – Florida white-tailed deer
• O. v. sinaloae – Sinaloa white-tailed deer (mid-western Mexico)
• O. v. taurinsulae – Bulls Island white-tailed deer (Bulls Island, South Carolina)
• O. v. texanus – Texas white-tailed deer
• O. v. thomasi – Mexican lowland white-tailed deer
• O. v. toltecus – Rain Forest white-tailed deer (southern Mexico)
• O. v. truei – Central American white-tailed deer (Costa Rica, Nicaragua and adjacent states)
• O. v. venatorius – Hunting Island white-tailed deer (Hunting Island, South Carolina)
• O. v. veraecrucis – northern Veracruz white-tailed deer
• O. v. virginianus – Virginia white-tailed deer or southern white-tailed deer
• O. v. yucatanensis – Yucatán white-tailed deer

South America[edit]

• O. v. cariacou – (French Guiana and north Brazil)
• O. v. curassavicus – (Curaçao)
• O. v. goudotii – (Colombia (Andes) and west Venezuela)
• O. v. gymnotis – South American white-tailed deer (northern half of Venezuela, including Venezuela's Llanos region)
• O. v. margaritae – (Margarita Island)
• O. v. nemoralis – (Central America, round the Gulf of Mexico to Surinam in South America; further restricted to from Honduras to Panama)
• O. v. peruvianus – South American white-tailed deer or Andean white-tailed deer (most southerly distribution in Peru and possibly, Bolivia)
• O. v. tropicalis – Peru and Ecuador (possibly Colombia)
• O. v. ustus – Ecuador (possibly southern of Colombia and northern of Peru)

 

 

 

I think you are correct we are not growing monsters in NJ. We could however, get our deer to 140-160 class with some bigger bucks in the mix. The main reason it will never happen is because the properties in NJ are too small for anyone to implement working QDM program. Our deer go through several properties in one single day so you are not managing anything.