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Thoughts on EAB - combined threads


dlist777

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... year after year after year over 50% of all deer we take are bucks, and the numbers are not dropping how can we say we have no bucks? Think about it, over 50% of all deer we kill are bucks.  

Yeah but between 60 and 65 percent of those bucks, depending on the year, are only 1.5 yrs old. So all that means is our buck hunting is a lot like our trout fishing; put and take. The difference is, the state stocks the fish and the does restock the buck population, but neither survive very long. That 60-65 percent is the worst in the country, if I remember correctly.  

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While QDM wants to tell you that antler restriction doesnt work. PA is proof that it absolutly does over a period of time.

The amount of quality bucks taken in PA now yearly there can be seen talking to any taxidermist there.

 

when I was younger 15 guys in camp shot 15 bucks a season. biggest one was a 75" six point , most of the rest 4 points and spikes.

In forty years of hunting that area, I saw 2 bucks worthy of mounting. one which my father harvested. scores around 125

 

in the last 4 years in the exact same area, I have an average of 4 bucks over 130 to hunt.

and the pressure there today is twice what it used to be.

Captain Dan Bias

REELMUSIC SPORTFISHING

50# Striper live release club.

 

http://reelmusicsportfishing.blogspot.com/

 

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While QDM wants to tell you that antler restriction doesnt work. PA is proof that it absolutly does over a period of time.

The amount of quality bucks taken in PA now yearly there can be seen talking to any taxidermist there.

 

The way QDM is implemented in PA is different than NJ.  In PA a hunter can only harvest one buck per year.  I think in NJ you can harvest 5 or more depending on your zone.  Additionally, QDM is only in effect in select zones in NJ, not across the entire state.

 

QDM may be working in PA due to the differences in how they implemented, but I can tell you for sure, QDM is not working in Zone 3 in NJ at all.

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Yeah but between 60 and 65 percent of those bucks, depending on the year, are only 1.5 yrs old. So all that means is our buck hunting is a lot like our trout fishing; put and take. The difference is, the state stocks the fish and the does restock the buck population, but neither survive very long. That 60-65 percent is the worst in the country, if I remember correctly.  

 

I agree, we don't have mature bucks because we take too many young deer. However; that's a different problem than we don't have enough bucks.

I think a very easy was to eliminate this problem is to classify antlerless bucks as bucks. You kill one you give up a buck tag. This would not effect the financial aspect for the state and I am willing to bet we would see 20% or more reduction in number of bucks killed.

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I agree, we don't have mature bucks because we take too many young deer. However; that's a different problem than we don't have enough bucks.

I think a very easy was to eliminate this problem is to classify antlerless bucks as bucks. You kill one you give up a buck tag. This would not effect the financial aspect for the state and I am willing to bet we would see 20% or more reduction in number of bucks killed.

 

Some of the biologists I have spoken with would love to implement it, but they fear just too many mistakes and left for dead or not tagged... 

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Some of the biologists I have spoken with would love to implement it, but they fear just too many mistakes and left for dead or not tagged... 

 

Even with some people doing it you would have less killed because people would make an effort to make sure they are not shooting BBs. But I do understand their concerns.

 

 

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Some of the biologists I have spoken with would love to implement it, but they fear just too many mistakes and left for dead or not tagged...

There are people out there without ethics that WOULD do that without a doubt, BUT there are more and more that wouldn't! So why punish the majority for the minority.

 

It would/could make some better hunters as well to ensure that you know your target before you shoot!

 

To me it's not the biologists that are the issue but the ones that have the final say when making the rules up.

 

Again 6 bucks a season is completely unnecessary. 2 a year is more that sufficient.

 

EAB is a waste of time and has proven over the years to not work.

 

 

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Some of the biologists I have spoken with would love to implement it, but they fear just too many mistakes and left for dead or not tagged... 

 

History has proven that too many hunters shoot first and check after.  That's one of the problems with ARs, states that have implemented them in the past found a 40-100% illegal kill rate of sub-legal bucks.    

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There are people out there without ethics that WOULD do that without a doubt, BUT there are more and more that wouldn't! So why punish the majority for the minority.

 

It would/could make some better hunters as well to ensure that you know your target before you shoot!

 

To me it's not the biologists that are the issue but the ones that have the final say when making the rules up.

 

Again 6 bucks a season is completely unnecessary. 2 a year is more that sufficient.

 

EAB is a waste of time and has proven over the years to not work.

 

 

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you could implement stiffer penalties for not reporting or not reporting accurately harvest of antlerless bucks. It would be legal to take one but very illegal not to report it.

I am still not convinced we don't have bucks in the woods. I only see we don't have mature bucks in the woods.  

Edited by Lunatic
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While QDM wants to tell you that antler restriction doesnt work. PA is proof that it absolutly does over a period of time.

The amount of quality bucks taken in PA now yearly there can be seen talking to any taxidermist there.

 

That's the problem though.  

 

It absolutely will work, "over a period of time" as you say, but then what's happening is you're (unintentionally) selecting-out the bucks with the best genetics for antler branching and the long-term effect of antler restriction will be regressive. 

 

It should be expected to aid in "big bucks" in PA for the short-term, but In the long-term the PA program is going to genetically hurt average antler size of their herd. 

Edited by BenedictGomez

"I wish we could sell them another hill at the same price." - Brigadier General Nathanael Greene, June 28, 1775

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That's the problem though.  

 

It absolutely will work, "over a period of time" as you say, but then what's happening is you're (unintentionally) selecting-out the bucks with the best genetics for antler branching and the long-term effect of antler restriction will be regressive. 

 

It should be expected to aid in "big bucks" in PA for the short-term, but In the long-term the PA program is going to genetically hurt average antler size of their herd. 

I dont agree. as every year that those better genetic bucks are around, they are doing the most of the breeding.

Pretty proven pint is MANY great bucks didnt have 6 or 8 points as a 1 1/2 year old buck especially in areas with less quality feed.

AGE is almost as important a factor.

Just seeing the difference in the last 10 years in the areas I hunt in PA I can see a drastic difference. each year getting better than the last.

Proof is at the taxidermist every fall.

so instead you want to shoot a spike of forkhorn before you even know what kind of genetics he had.

 

start letting bucks make it to three or four years old and watch how much better the greater genes show through.

 

whole idea behind point restrictions is to allow bucks to age and show you  what they are truelly capable of.

Captain Dan Bias

REELMUSIC SPORTFISHING

50# Striper live release club.

 

http://reelmusicsportfishing.blogspot.com/

 

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Just seeing the difference in the last 10 years in the areas I hunt in PA I can see a drastic difference. each year getting better than the last.

 

I dont disagree with your observations at all, I'd expect you to see bucks getting "better" with this program just as you describe.  But 10 years, genetically speaking, is short-term. 

 

What I'm talking about is a negative effect that I believe will appear after 20 or 25 or maybe 30 years, etc....but which will sure enough eventually start to negatively effect antler size.  You just cant screw with Gregor Mendel and expect to get away with it.

"I wish we could sell them another hill at the same price." - Brigadier General Nathanael Greene, June 28, 1775

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I dont agree. as every year that those better genetic bucks are around, they are doing the most of the breeding.

Pretty proven pint is MANY great bucks didnt have 6 or 8 points as a 1 1/2 year old buck especially in areas with less quality feed.

AGE is almost as important a factor.

Just seeing the difference in the last 10 years in the areas I hunt in PA I can see a drastic difference. each year getting better than the last.

Proof is at the taxidermist every fall.

so instead you want to shoot a spike of forkhorn before you even know what kind of genetics he had.

 

start letting bucks make it to three or four years old and watch how much better the greater genes show through.

 

whole idea behind point restrictions is to allow bucks to age and show you  what they are truelly capable of.

 

You maybe right however are there any official numbers that could prove your point. State keeps track of what you take in PA so is there a significant increase in harvest of mature deer after the 3 point rule implementation? Your world is too small to draw this type of conclusion.

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As long as we have unlimited doe zones and guys kill 5-6 bucks a year there isn't going to be any trophy deer Management by the state. Guys on big private land can do it. Public land not so much... at least not down here in South Jersey. Farmers and gun clubs make the rules down here. The fact that the 2 day early muzzy season was/is being discontinued because people are whining that it makes deer harder to hunt. That's whining from the gun clubs. Cry babies. Sportsmen in this state will never be on the same page.

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