2/16/17 - Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 25

[NJDFW]

2/16/17 - Public Meeting on Trout Stocking Program February 25

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[stratocaster]

I attended one of these years ago and found absolutely nothing useful being discussed.  Anyone else find these events helpful? Why?

[TDietz]

The problem with trout stocking in the manner that NJ does it is that it's sooooo last century. It will take them decades and millions of dollars in studies to figure out, (think Canada goose), that stocking hatchery fish where there's wild ones isn't the best thing to be doing. 

[buckfever1974]

The problem with trout stocking in the manner that NJ does it is that it's sooooo last century. It will take them decades and millions of dollars in studies to figure out, (think Canada goose), that stocking hatchery fish where there's wild ones isn't the best thing to be doing. 

For someone who doesn't know any better, why is this a problem?

[1957Buck]

NJ is not Alaska or Montana Nj stocks for Recreational Fishing. No one is flying across the country to fish its drainage rivers and retention ponds, Yes there are a few Lakes, Reservoirs, Rivers and Streams that provide Sports Fishing Jersey Style ( Put & Take ) 

The Circus on opening day and days of stocking Is when the vast Majority fish for trout. After that comes the closest thing to Sports Fishing.   

The most natural places for trout get a good spread of stocking, while the combat places get them dumped in. 

Not all places support trout for many reasons so it is Put and Take before they die or prayed on.

To say NJ does a bad job of Stocking they  do a hell of a job for what they have to work with. 

 

There will always be Whiners and Complainers and fisherman is the Biggest,

For the $$$$ one spends on a Licence That somehow gives the right to Complain they never look at the $1.000.00s they spend on the means to fish.  That Sage or Orvis will not Catch fish as a Ymaahutchy will work as well.  So go Fishing Take a kid you might do some catching there are still 1000s of Trout out there.   

 

[buckfever1974]

I was at the meeting and then had discussions with people afterwards on the topic of native brook trout streams.

 

My understand is that there is going to be a proposal that all brookies would have to be released in the North West part of the state.  I don't have the map in front of me but the rational was that was where almost all of the water bodies that could support natural brook trout existed.  Not all bodies of water support the natives but if they did, it was the north west.

 

The above is not an issue currently because all the state is raising are rainbows and based on what I heard, getting the $$$ from the treasury to build the impediments for protection of the tround runways has been difficult at best and there are more pressing projects being proposed from other divisions within the state.  This is more of an issue for when they do getthe program up and running again and all three species can be raised.  My interpretation which was later confirmed, albeit not officially, was that the state would cease to stock any brookies in the north west because of the previously mentioned catch and release only of brook trout for the north west.

 

It's in this issue that I dont have enough information but my opinion was that I like the ability to catch all three species at any given time in the north west where I do 95% of my fishing.  If there are biological reasons as to why you can't stock brookies in primary waters that could eventually have some mixing of native and stockers together, I don't understand them.  If it's a situation of harvesting natives, the size of these natives are most likely smaller then the legal size limit anyway on the majority but this is an opinion and not a known fact.  

[stratocaster]

NJ is not Alaska or Montana Nj stocks for Recreational Fishing. No one is flying across the country to fish its drainage rivers and retention ponds, Yes there are a few Lakes, Reservoirs, Rivers and Streams that provide Sports Fishing Jersey Style ( Put & Take ) 

The Circus on opening day and days of stocking Is when the vast Majority fish for trout. After that comes the closest thing to Sports Fishing.   

The most natural places for trout get a good spread of stocking, while the combat places get them dumped in. 

Not all places support trout for many reasons so it is Put and Take before they die or prayed on.

To say NJ does a bad job of Stocking they  do a hell of a job for what they have to work with. 

 

There will always be Whiners and Complainers and fisherman is the Biggest,

For the $$$$ one spends on a Licence That somehow gives the right to Complain they never look at the $1.000.00s they spend on the means to fish.  That Sage or Orvis will not Catch fish as a Ymaahutchy will work as well.  So go Fishing Take a kid you might do some catching there are still 1000s of Trout out there.   

While I respect your opinion, I disagree with your  explanation.  Trout are stocked in NJ and other states in order to sell fishing licenses and stamps.  There are streams in NJ that support wild reproduction of brown trout in such numbers that prior to the Furunculosis outbreak NJ stopped stocking BT in those streams as early as 1990.  I did not make that up but was told that by Shawn Crouse, so why would they continue to stock any trout in that stream when they could A: put those trout in another stream/lake.  B: Take some of the wild trout and try to establish a wild population in some other stream. Well I think you know the answer.  Part of my studies in college involved studying certain rivers and why trout once stocked started reproducing and in other rivers they did not. Even though similar conditions existed.  Made for some very interesting comparisons.  

[TDietz]

For someone who doesn't know any better, why is this a problem?

No expert here, but from what I understand, stocked fish are harmful in various ways, introducing diseases, competing for food, eating wild fingerlings, basically driving wild trout out and taking over. Browns taking over waters that are traditional brook trout creeks. Brook trout running rainbows out. Lake trout eating up cutthroats in Yellowstone, (Last two examples are Western obviously.) NJ is basically a "put and take" fishery, they put em in and we fish em out. And that's fine for some places. But, with the streams cleaning up in the last 50 years, I remember seeing the lower Musconetcong running the color of the day from the papermills in Warren Glen and Hughesville, vivid reds, greens, yellows!! And now, I don't even want to put this on-line, it looks like a NY state steelhead stream, Thank You Bucksnbows by the way.

I think any stream that has the potential for trout to actually spawn and reproduce should be governed to enhance that capability. (I know, the drought is going to wipe it all out anyhow), but I think we should at least try.

My biggest complaint with NJ Fish and Wildlife, is that they never seem to have an up to date plan with clear goals. It's always like, "It ain't quite broke so we ain't quite gonna fix it". And, instead of educating us Sportsman on the plan and the goal, if they even have a goal, they'd rather keep us fat and stupid and in the dark.(This goes for the deer program too) Encouraging  fisherman to learn how to identify wild browns and then, if they're not bleeding release them unharmed, would be a great start. Publish it too, not just verbalize it at a meeting that not everyone can attend.

To sum it up, NJ has some pretty nice water, and I don't feel it's being regulated to it's potential. And, I realize there are a lot of people that are fine with the status quo, me, I'm always up for improvement.

[stratocaster]

Yeah TD, you're mostly right.  But Steelhead are ocean going rainbows and not native to NY or any eastern stream.  Atlantic salmon used to be abundant in Lake Ontario but that was a long time ago.  As for more regulations, they don't work the way you think they would but are led to believe.  PA has wild trout streams that have harvest limits identical to stocked streams with no detrimental effects to its population. Why? Wild fish are much harder to catch.  PA stopped stocking whole stretches of streams 17 years ago and the fishing has gotten incredibly better than it was.  I can attest as I have fished the same streams when they were stocked prior to 2000 and now are not and the fishing is so much better with wild fish everywhere and no reduction in limits. 

[BenedictGomez]

To say NJ does a bad job of Stocking they  do a hell of a job for what they have to work with. 

 

Agreed.

 

 

  If there are biological reasons as to why you can't stock brookies in primary waters that could eventually have some mixing of native and stockers together, I don't understand them.

 

The wild trout have evolved for many years in those areas and have adapted and have behaviours that the stockies do not.  The introduced stockies also consume resources and so are competing with the wild stock which can reduce their overall fitness and likelihood to survive & reproduce.   Also, it's possible you can introduce disease to the wild fish..  Those are just a handful of reasons I can think of off the top of my head.

Edited February 27, 2017 by BenedictGomez

[Bucksnbows]

The division is proposing some bold an excellent moves to better protect our wild trout of all three species with a major emphasis on protecting our only native salmonid, the brook trout.

 

 

 

 

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[TDietz]

Yeah TD, you're mostly right.  But Steelhead are ocean going rainbows and not native to NY or any eastern stream.  Atlantic salmon used to be abundant in Lake Ontario but that was a long time ago.  As for more regulations, they don't work the way you think they would but are led to believe.  PA has wild trout streams that have harvest limits identical to stocked streams with no detrimental effects to its population. Why? Wild fish are much harder to catch.  PA stopped stocking whole stretches of streams 17 years ago and the fishing has gotten incredibly better than it was.  I can attest as I have fished the same streams when they were stocked prior to 2000 and now are not and the fishing is so much better with wild fish everywhere and no reduction in limits. 

I just meant that it has that same "quality look"  as a steelhead stream. I much prefer to angle for browns and rainbows, neither which is native to NJ as you well know, other readers maybe not. I wouldn't want NJ to become an all brookie state. Your example of what's going on in PA states my stand better than I can write myself.

The point I was trying to make was that, while some of the streams of NJ have improved greatly in water quality, the fisheries program is basically the same as it was when they first started raising and stocking trout from the old Hackettstown hatchery, which I'm pretty sure was about 100 tears ago.

[TDietz]

The division is proposing some bold an excellent moves to better protect our wild trout of all three species with a major emphasis on protecting our only native salmonid, the brook trout.

 

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That's a start!

[Bucksnbows]

NJ will never be Montana and likely can never totally give up trout stocking while still pleasing the angler community.  But the Division at both their own internal urging and from conservation groups like Trout Unlimited are finally making some bold proposals to better protect wild trout in the higher quality waters where wild trout live.  And the native brook trout have the most to gain, but they will better protect wild browns and rainbows where those species are the dominant wild trout already.  

 

For those that are a fan of our river restoration work, we are currently working on restoring about a half mile of the South Branch Raritan (wild browns are dominant species) in Califon above the ball fields by removing the remnant Weiss Mill dam and restoring 2,300' above that old stone dam that is partially breached.  We are doing the same on the Lamington at the remnant Burnt Mills dam and restoring both up and downstream for about 2,500'.  We also have big and small projects on Capoolong Creek, the North Branch Raritan, more on the Musky (both private and public water), and more rivers and streams that I can't discuss right now for a variety of reasons.  

[TDietz]

NJ will never be Montana and likely can never totally give up trout stocking while still pleasing the angler community.  But the Division at both their own internal urging and from conservation groups like Trout Unlimited are finally making some bold proposals to better protect wild trout in the higher quality waters where wild trout live.  And the native brook trout have the most to gain, but they will better protect wild browns and rainbows where those species are the dominant wild trout already.  

 

For those that are a fan of our river restoration work, we are currently working on restoring about a half mile of the South Branch Raritan (wild browns are dominant species) in Califon above the ball fields by removing the remnant Weiss Mill dam and restoring 2,300' above that old stone dam that is partially breached.  We are doing the same on the Lamington at the remnant Burnt Mills dam and restoring both up and downstream for about 2,500'.  We also have big and small projects on Capoolong Creek, the North Branch Raritan, more on the Musky (both private and public water), and more rivers and streams that I can't discuss right now for a variety of reasons.  

Wow! That's great you have that much on your plate, if you're ever looking to hire an uneducated-almost-over-the-hill shovel-ready helper let me know