Do you agree with this ?

[Lphunsjr]

Because back then a deer was a deer and you were a new hunter.  Now you have good properties and you can let them grow and shooting a 6 pointer is easy for you now.  Depends on where you are hunting also.  If you have some nice private property that is crawling with bucks and you can let them grow, then why not?  If you are hunting public or only get out a few days a year then maybe you will be less selective. 

 

These are my thoughts exactly. This is my third complete year of hunting and have yet to kill a buck. Each year I learned more and more and next year it will happen. When I sat on public land, I said to myself that I would take a big 6 or decent 8 if I had the chance. I had the opportunity to sit in some of my buddy's spots and passed on many deer that I would have shot on public land. I knew what was in the area and decided to roll the dice and wait. I can't see shooting a spike or a small racked buck, but that's just me.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Lphunsjr

[GhostBear]

I hunt public land, always have with the exception of a management hunt at AC airport, or rather the FAA tech center, a rather large piece of land something in the area of 2k acres of land, I hunted there for about 12 years a few times a week. Deer where checked on site by the FAA biologist, it was a doe first then a buck 6 or better. In the beginning we saw some real nice bucks, even a 1.5 year old basket 12 point, this area was limited to 65 bow hunters, and on permit shot gun drives where conducted for 3 days, the APR was still in effect for them too. Many bucks died of old age as that acreage was fenced with a 10' fence, though there were spots the deer could sneak under, the biologists and some hunters would find huge racks and sculls on the property, but anyway, by year 8 the effects of "high grading" was evident, Buck harvest dropped off and sightings of legal also dropped off, on one of the last hunts I did there, 2010, I had 4 bucks around me a spike, a basket 8 maybe a 14" spread and 2 huge 4 points that where in my estimate were both over 4 years old. These bucks were book ends and both with a spread similar to the one in my avatar, only with more mass.

 

The point is with 2000 acres, under lock and key limited by an APR for both gun and bow, limited to only 65 bow hunters and only 3 drive days and one week of shotgun, it resulted in younger legal bucks killed and many sublegal Bucks growing into mature 4's and 5's,

 

Be carful about wanting to implement that state wide. APRs are a great way to remove the genetics you think you are protecting.

 

A better way to protect bucks IMO is to reduce buck tags to 2 per year, and use them how you like, kill 2 during the rut, your done, kill 1 in October then another with the shot gun in December your done, but we all know that won't happen.

[JHbowhunter]

Yeah I wasn't really advocating the QDMA bible, or APRs - I was simply saying I like the simple concept of letting the younger one's walk. That's nothing new - just thought the sign was cool. As you know, I have been advocating two flexible buck tags per calendar year for a long time.  If the state implemented it right, they could even make MORE money off it. 

[GhostBear]

Fair enough, I really don't have a dog in the QDM fight anyway, my concern is more about the meat on his bones, not the bone on his head. Lol though that's not to say I'd pass on a giant if given the shot! Lol I'm not that crazy. Lol

[Live to Hunt]

Yes I agree let them grow but I hunt private property in Kansas and you only get that one buck tag. Shoot what you want it's your hunt but, there is something very clear NJ has no clue how to manage any of their wildlife.

[rossbowhunter]

It's very hard to care, when everyone else around the property does not, so I still do my part to not take more than my fill. between my wife and I killed 2 deer this year.

[not on the rug]

I personally like to let the bucks grow now (I'm 37 and have been deer hunting since I was 10 years old).  I shot my share of spikes and fork bucks when I was younger and I loved every one of them.  I haven't killed a buck in 5 years because I let the little ones go and the mature ones seem to stay a step ahead of me in the chess game.  That's why they call it hunting... 

 

I think people should shoot what they want to shoot and be happy with it.  I think that a total buck limit in NJ (either 1 or 2) would do far more good for producing mature bucks than antler point requirements or simply letting every single young buck walk, only to be shot by the next guy.  

 

Most NJ guys aren't hunting 1000+ acre farms and coordinating with their neighbors about only shooting mature bucks.  

Edited February 2, 2017 by not on the rug

[GhostBear]

This ain't Kansas, this is jersey, we simply can't manage the herd like Kansas does, not enough land when you look at the size of one to the other, trust me, they know what there doing, out of necessity they have to manage for lower numbers not bigger bucks, it not heathy to have a deer behind ever tree like it was in the late 90's early 2000's hence the unlimited zones, though at this point I think a 3 deer limit per season will keep the deer in check where public hunting land exists in the current unlimited zones. Zones like 13 or 36 those with no open public land are still over run like the old days, and they are harder to manage what with towns enacting no discharge ordinances, making management that much harder. In the deer management scheme, we are nothing more than a means to an end, the deer are managed for the state as a whole, not just hunters. I'm happy enough just to be able to even hunt deer in jersey, considering the pressure put on the the state to either end all hunt, like antis want, or wipe out the deer altogether like farmers and suburban yuppies want.

 

I'm willing to bet deer hunting in jersey will go the way of the dinosaur in the next 40-50 years anyway with the rate of development going on, though I hope I'm wrong.

[mazzgolf]

there is something very clear NJ has no clue how to manage any of their wildlife.

 

You assume the overriding wildlife management goal of NJ DFW is the size of bucks. That doesn't seem like a goal they are trying to achieve. I'm basing my opinion solely on just reading the digest and seeing the "limits" they set (or non-limits as the case may be). A buck tag allowed per zone, per season? Unlimited does in many zones? Seems to me their management goal is to lower the overall deer numbers as much as possible without decimating the herd, NOT the quality of the bucks.

[not on the rug]

This ain't Kansas, this is jersey, we simply can't manage the herd like Kansas does, not enough land when you look at the size of one to the other, trust me, they know what there doing, out of necessity they have to manage for lower numbers not bigger bucks, it not heathy to have a deer behind ever tree like it was in the late 90's early 2000's hence the unlimited zones, though at this point I think a 3 deer limit per season will keep the deer in check where public hunting land exists in the current unlimited zones. Zones like 13 or 36 those with no open public land are still over run like the old days, and they are harder to manage what with towns enacting no discharge ordinances, making management that much harder. In the deer management scheme, we are nothing more than a means to an end, the deer are managed for the state as a whole, not just hunters. I'm happy enough just to be able to even hunt deer in jersey, considering the pressure put on the the state to either end all hunt, like antis want, or wipe out the deer altogether like farmers and suburban yuppies want.

 

I'm willing to bet deer hunting in jersey will go the way of the dinosaur in the next 40-50 years anyway with the rate of development going on, though I hope I'm wrong.

Right, but you can still lower the amount of total bucks allowed and effectively manage the population and grow bigger bucks at the same time. 

 

You assume the overriding wildlife management goal of NJ DFW is the size of bucks. That doesn't seem like a goal they are trying to achieve. I'm basing my opinion solely on just reading the digest and seeing the "limits" they set (or non-limits as the case may be). A buck tag allowed per zone, per season? Unlimited does in many zones? Seems to me their management goal is to lower the overall deer numbers as much as possible without decimating the herd, NOT the quality of the bucks.

Yup.  Although I think it's safe to say that up here in NWNJ, the herd has been decimated

[3Blade]

This is what NJFW considers "QDMA"

[1957Buck]

 First let me say I respect everyone's opinion  

 

In my 60 out of 75 years of Hunting, there have been massive changes from the numbers of deer and hunting methods.

The success rate in those early years was very low. one could say that the number of hunters was low. when the facts show the deer numbers were low also.  Antlers were not on many minds. Hunting was more a Family Tradition deer hunting was mostly a 2 day out of 6 days. most could not afford any more days off from work The majority hunted Public Hunting and shooting Grounds as they were called. there were a few exclusive Clubs Many in the Pines called Camps a few in Northern NJ. Coventry was the most exclusive. 

It was Bucks only no one blasted anyone for Harvesting a Spiker since opportunities were few It was thought by many Shotgun Hunters that the Bow Hunters who had first chance at again Bucks only took to many bucks. One other point was that many Bucks had already shed. It was much colder back then.  

Small Game got more attention in those days as more game was available both native and stocked.  Quail- Rabbits- Pheasants- were widely stocked.

Deer hunting was the icing on the cake. It was a long time from one year to another to Hunt deer for many 1 Day for many 2 for most. That mentioned how many Bucks do you think were passed up hoping for a Bigger one. ( A bird in the hand is better than one in the bush ) 

My father and I went many seasons with no luck. It was not till the mid-70s that we had more success and when the opportunity arose to take a spike- fork- 4-6 we took it. Now jump to late 80-s to today  Seasons got longer bag limits grew. Either Sex became legal methods added. Herds of Deer improved in ( Some areas ) Failed in others. Out of reach in Others. Nuances in many. Become Road Kills into many areas.  

To Judge anyone for their choices is unfair. From the hunter who has fewer opportunities with limited resources to The hunter how has the luxury of having all the bells and whistles that Cabelas offers to many more days afield. I could go on and on about the methods used today to the ones of the Past. But then I would be pushing my opinion and doing what many feels is being a conservationist.  Let's put Sportsmanship back into Hunting. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by 1957Buck

[JHbowhunter]

1957Buck - totally get what you are saying. I experienced a lot of what you did but you probably have at least 20 years on me.  I only disagree with your point about judging others for their choices. I really don't see any of that in this thread, unless I missed it. In fact - quite the opposite from what I read. I even had the words "I won't judge....." in my initial post.

Edited February 2, 2017 by JHbowhunter

[1957Buck]

Rather than add quotes NJ does deer management pure and simple.  Not everyone is happy with the outcomes. 

The Many States Can and do a better job but also have more resources.  One being Funds NJDFAG is funded by Licences they say and Taxes on Sporting goods 

While I can speak on Alaska where I have been-been dozens of times since I have family there. The State Relies on Fishing Hunting Tourism. and they fund them generously.  They are light years ahead in every department when it comes to hunting and fishing and still, there are residents and outsiders who disagree. 

[1957Buck]

1957Buck - totally get what you are saying. I experienced a lot of what you did but you probably have at least 20 years on me.  I only disagree with your point about judging others for their choices. I really don't see any of that in this thread, unless I missed it. In fact - quite the opposite from what I read. I even had the words "I won't judge....." in my initial post.

It is not so much the Judging but to the referrals. nothing intended.